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While the phenomenon you describe certainly exists, it is vital to separate it from the phenomenon of not wanting to support the US "defense" sector.

I do not identify as a leftist, and would not be considered one, but as an aerospace engineer I would never work for something that aids the US war machine.

Those weapons are never used in "defense". Do they defend an unsustainable way of life ? Sure.



The last time I saw one of these weapons in use was when I was standing in my kitchen in Ukraine and through the window I could see a missile take down a russian suicide drone.

How is that not defence?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...

Ukraine is the only case. And let's not forget that the US is indirectly responsible for the Russian invasion.

I know that it is very hard for you to see things objectively, and I am sorry for what you and your country is experiencing.


The objectives of a land grabbing tyrant are what’s objective. You can’t be serious.


As you might be aware, which I cannot be certain of given your insubstantial reply, international geopolitics are usually a bit more nuanced than an aggressive "land grabbing tyrant".


And as you might be aware, sometimes they aren’t.


Are you asking what the nuance is in this case?

Ukraine is a strategically important region to Russia. They don't have to invade as long as they can threaten to invade, and thereby get concessions without armed conflict.

If Ukraine joins NATO then Russia could no longer credibly threaten to invade because it would put Russia at war with NATO. Ukraine about to join NATO is thereby destabilizing, because then Russia has to choose between invading immediately before they join, or doing nothing and permanently losing their leverage. This does not make the invasion justified but it makes it expected. US diplomats knew this perfectly well and pushed for Ukraine to join NATO anyway.

It's like telling your friend to corner a vicious dog. The dog is not innocent, the dog is going to bite them and you knew that and told them to do it anyway.


It would be nice if this story more often were told from the perspective that the friend also has agency. Maybe the friend eyed the odds and thought:

Yep, better deal with this damn dog once and for all.

Can't live in uncertainty like this, never knowing when the dog will break in to the back yard and bite the kids

Ukraine is stuck between a rock and hard place, but they also have agency.


> US diplomats knew this perfectly well and pushed for Ukraine to join NATO anyway.

The initiative for joining NATO came from Ukraine and not the US diplomats. Prior to 2014 the public support was too weak for it to happen. Popular support first shifted almost overnight from the majority opposing NATO membership to supporting it after Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014, and shifted even more towards support after Russia launched the full-scale invasion in 2022: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations...

Neither invasion had anything to do with NATO. In 2014, Russia correctly judged that the international response would be too weak and made a successful land grab. After the spectacular American retreat from Afghanistan that mirrored the last days of Saigon, Russians again sensed weakness and thought Biden was too weak to intervene in Ukraine and decided that the climate was suitable for taking the next step in restoring their former empire in 2022. Planning for the 2022 invasion began around the time of US retreat from Afghanistan.

> It's like telling your friend to corner a vicious dog. The dog is not innocent, the dog is going to bite them and you knew that and told them to do it anyway.

This is a narrative propagated by Russians, and sounds convicing on the surface, but has little actual substance. Nobody's cornered. Russia's threats are bluffs, intended to paralyze you with fear and guide you into inaction, which Russia will then exploit, as they have done in Ukraine.

To continue your dog analogy, they are a dog that barks and barks, and bites only if they sense fear and weakness and see an opportunity to bite. Show strength and they'll back down. (And this is how you deal with actual dogs too; they smell fear from sweat.)


Russel Brand? Is that you?

It doesn’t make one an intellectual to shroud their own tenuous grasp on reality with a cover of “ooohh!!! Nuaaannce!!!”

The international geopolitics here are very simple.

The russian federation aims to rebuild the former russian empire. They’re prosecuting this by first trying to exterminate Ukraine as a population, as a nation, as a culture, and as an identity.

It has nothing to do with NATO expansion, or sob stories russia has published about them needing to defend themselves.


There is not any meaningful nuance to apply here. In February 2022 Russia launced a full scale military attack on a soverign neighbouring country. Ukraine defends itself with western military weapons. That is clear use of defense and no "nuance" changes that.


I will never say that the NATO is an innocent organisation; however, to say that the US/NATO is indirectly responsible is a stretch. It would imply that the US invading Mexico would be justified if they were to become allies with Russia. I would as strongly oppose that as well.


Why do you feel that you are able to see things objectively?

To me, it looks like you are repeating kremlin propaganda. It looks like you’re another victim of the Chomsky school of propaganda.

The USA isn’t responsible for russia’s invasion of Ukraine (or Georgia, earlier). If they are, it’s only responsible insofar as allowing useful idiots to apply political pressure to their governments and force them into pacifism, thereby enabling russian aggression.

If you want to have a discussion about this, could you start by not being so patronising?


> not wanting to support the US "defense" sector.

Better stop using computers and the internet then.




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