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Calibri font has "I" and "l" the same, according to Wikipedia. A better font should avoid characters being too similar (such as "I" and "l" and "1").

Another issue is due to the font size and font metrics, how much space it will take up on the page, to be small enough to avoid wasting paper and ink but also not too small to read.

So, there are multiple issues in choosing the fonts; however, Times New Roman and Calibri are not the only two possible choices.

Maybe the government should make up their own (hopefully public domain) font, which would be suitable for their purposes (and avoiding needing proprietary fonts), and use that instead.


> Maybe the government should make up their own

They have, public sans, courtesy of USWDS, and it does distinguish between l and I with a little hook/spur on lowercase el

https://public-sans.digital.gov/

https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Public+Sans?preview.text=1...


Is USWDS still a thing? I thought they were DOGED out of existence.

Good question, with a little searching I found that, in true DOGE fashion, there exists an executive order announcing a new "National Design Studio" which is tasked with updating USWDS

So why fonts are being managed by Rubio and not the Chief Design Officer is anyone's guess

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/08/fact-sheet-pr...


It’s also on GitHub: https://github.com/uswds/public-sans

The glyph repertoire is a bit limited, though.


Ooh, I like Public Sans! I hadn't seen it before.

True though the confusion about that is largely when you're not dealing with words like passwords or hashes. In the context of words it's going to be generally disambiguated by context, I can't think of an example off hand in writing where I and l will that ambiguous. The removal of serifs probably has a higher impact to more people unless I'm missing some common situation where they'd be easy to confuse in context.

Come to think of it, I vs l vs 1 vs | is one advantage of serif fonts.

No. I don’t want the gov wasting money making a fucking font.

There’s a few dozen off the shelf fonts that would work for 99.99% of people.

For those who it doesn’t work, deal with it. It’s a font. Or fallback to system font.


> Calibri font has "I" and "l" the same, according to Wikipedia. A better font should avoid characters being too similar (such as "I" and "l" and "1").

Only when used in a context where they can be confused. This is a situation where HN is going to give bad advice. Programmers care deeply about that stuff (i.e. "100l" is a long-valued integer literal in C and not the number 1001). Most people tend not to, and there is a long tradition of fonts being a little ambiguous in that space.

But yes, don't use Calibri in your editor.


> Most people tend not to

Except the whole rationale for going to Calibri in the first place was that it was supposedly more accessible due to being easier to OCR.


That's the "diversity" they were talking about?? Fucks sake.

It's not, although blind or highly vision impared people who use screen readers sometimes also have to rely on OCR when the document isn't properly formatted with text.

Using a sans serif font generally helps anyone with difficulty distinguishing letters so dyslexic, low vision, aging vision etc. individuals. It's not just for digital OCR.


It's not like the State Department would ever mention Kim Jong the Second in documents.

Nope, just Kim Jong one (in French).

> Most people tend not to

Yeah because normal people never have to deal with alphanumeric strings...


> Yeah because normal people never have to deal with alphanumeric strings...

Natural language tends to have a high degree of disambiguating redundancy and is used to communicate between humans, who are good at making use of that. Programming languages have somewhat less of disambiguating redundancy (or in extreme cases almost none), and, most critically, are used to communicate with compilers and interpreters that have zero capacity to make use of it even when it is present.

This makes "letter looks like a digit that would rarely be used in a place where both make sense" a lot more of a problem for a font used with a programming language than a font used for a natural language.


People named Al are having a field day with the recent AI boom.

El confusion is absolutely a problem for regular people.


Legal language isn't very natural

Legal language is natural language with particular domain-specific technical jargon; like other uses of natural language, it targets humans who are quite capable of resolving ambiguity via context and not compilers and interpreters that are utterly incapable of doing so.

Not that official State Department communication is mostly “legal language” as distinct from more general formal use of natural language to start with.


No, because normal people can read "l00l" as a number just fine and don't actually care if the underlying encoding is different. AI won't care either. It's just us on-the-spectrum nerds with our archaic deterministic devices and brains trained on them that get wound up about it. Designing a font for normal readers is just fine.

A font was the en_US version of fount. A fount was a particular example of a typeface. A typeface is something like TNR or Calibri. They all seem to have been munged into a single set of synonyms except for fount which has been dropped (so why do we still have colour and all that stuff)?

A print, then typewriter, then computer typeface emulates a written script but also takes on a life of its own. Handwriting in english is mostly gibberish these days because hardly anyone uses a pen anymore! However, it is mostly "cursive" and cursive is not the same as serif and sans.

English prides itself on not having diacritics, or accents or whatever that thing where you merge a A and E is called, unless they are borrowed: in which case all bets are off; or there is an r in the month and the moon is in Venus.

So you want a font and it needs to look lovely. If your O and 0 are not differentiated then you have failed. 2:Z?, l:L:1? Good.

I use a german style slash across the number seven when I write the number, even though my number one is nothing like a german one, which looks more like a lambda. I also slash a lone capital Zed. I slash a zero: 0 and dot an O when writing code on paper. Basically, when I write with a pen you are in absolutely no doubt what character I have written, unless the DTs kick in 8)


The linked A+E thing is called a ligature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligature_(writing)

Same root as "ligament" and "ligand."


I thought I was the only one that still crossed a seven and slashed a zero. I don’t dot an ‘O’ however.

That's good, because the "O" should never be dotted. You use slash OR dot for zero, unless you vaguely remember them both as useful for disambiguating but forgot that both marks are for zero and vary by typeface. Mostly dotted zero was just during the dot matrix era. I wouldn't mind being shown counter examples.

I cross my sevens, slash my zeros, and use a hook on lowercase T to avoid confusion with plus signs. I think I developed the hook-T habit in college math classes.

I didn’t even think about that one, I do that as well, and for the exact same reason! That’s too funny.

I cross my sevens!

I'll consider starting to slash my zeros. Seems legit.


In india its considered bad omen to slash 7s.

We are trying to summon a Leviathan here.

> Or hell, why not do it in x86 assembly?

It is not portable to computers other than x86. It is one of the reasons I do not use x86 assembly much even though I have a x86 computer; I prefer C. It is not about vibe coding.

> I suppose what I’m getting at, here, is that if vibe coding is the future of software development (and it is), then why bother with languages that were designed for people who are not vibe coding? Shouldn’t there be such a thing as a “vibe-oriented programming language?” VOP. You read it here first.

Someone told me that two companies (one of which is Google) were working on such a thing, although I do not know the details (or if they were correct about that), and I do not know whether or not it resembles what is described in that article.

I do not use LLM myself, although I have seen a few examples of it. I have not seen very many so the sample size is too small, but what I have seen (from simple example programs), the program works although it is not written very well.


There is another kind, which is X.509 client certificates, which is more secure and more versatile than other kinds. However, it does mean that if you want to login from more than one computer, you need the certificate and private key on all of them (but this can be an advantage as well as being a disadvantage). It is capable of handling authorization as well as authentication, if you add extensions for this use. The private key may be passworded, which can provide additional security; storing one certificate on a computer not connected to the internet and then issuing another certificate to yourself which will be the one you will actually use, can also provide additional security; in both cases, the service provider does not need to worry about these things and the client can do how they intend to do.

Another method which may be suitable for some uses (although the working of web browsers means that it will not work securely in a web browser, unless you have an extension, but it can work easily in other programs) is HMAC, although this is not suitable for all uses. For idempotent write operations which are not intended to be secret, it might work.


I agree that there should not be icons in menus (with the exception of those indicating the status, like is shown in the 2005 guidelines). (Arrangements, shapes, etc might also sometimes be useful to indicate, but these should be separate from status indicators if they are present, and should be a part of the text instead in the few cases where they are applicable; in most cases they should not be needed.)

Showing a check mark for if something is active can make sense, and other status indicators, but then it should also indicate if the status is currently absent. (On Windows, some menu items can have a check mark, but if there isn't, it does not tell you if it is one that could have a check mark or not. Indicating this could be useful.)

Another thing that the menus do have, and which they should have because it is good to have, is specifying which keys are used to operate those commands. Windows also has one underlined letter so that you can select it when the menu is displayed, which can also be useful (especially since not all commands have keys assigned normally, so using the keys to activate the menus can be used in this case).

My own programs with menus do not use icons (and do not usually use icons outside of menus either).


I might use audio cassettes if I want to record my own audio temporarily (and later copy it to a CD if I decide to keep it; I have done this before), especially if the higher quality of CDs is not needed. For most uses I would probably not use audio cassette tapes; I prefer to use CDs.

(One feature of audio cassettes is that it will stay where it was left off (even if it is removed and used in a different player), although this can be both an advantage and a disadvantage (for one thing, each cassette has only one position). At least, you can easily rewind it back to the beginning. There are other advantages and disadvantages as well)


The past is not perfect and there are some things that are improved in some ways these days (and in future), but other things are being worse these days (and in future) than they were. It is not so simple.

I also think that you should not rely on (or overuse) modern technology too much, even though it can sometimes be beneficial (so it is not the reason to avoid it unconditionally, nor necessarily to avoid it generally).

Many things now are excessively artificially, including (but not limited to): light, music, communication, food, transportation, and now even also creativity. (Some of these (such as food and music) are mentioned in that article but some are they do not seem to mention it) This is not the only problem (there are many other problems too), but it is one aspect of it.


> Time to ban all adverts everywhere.

I think that is too much, but it should be almost entirely banned, with only very limited exceptions. Advertisements which you are specificailly looking for, such as catalogs for those specific things, could be one of those exceptions.

However, even regardless of these exceptions, there will need to be limits, such as: do not be dishonest, do not emit light, do not waste power, do not spy on you, do not block the view of other things, do not try to prevent you from seeing them, they cannot pay you or give you discounts for seeing the ads, etc.

> The time to negotiate a "middle ground" is long past.

I think it will need to be a "nearly banned" ground rather than the "middle" ground, though.

> Ad companies need to be reined in. They cannot control themselves.

This part I agree with.

> The only solution is [...] to make sure that anyone who gets that idea will never get it again.

But, this part, I think that won't work. Even if it does work (which it won't), it is bad for freedom of speech and freedom of opinion.


The excessive advertising also results in waste of paper and waste of time, wasted computer power and disk space, lighted advertising making light pollution, etc. This is in addition to issues of happiness, dishonesty, etc.

Yes, that would be an example of an acceptable advertising, and is better than what they usually do too much instead.

I would agree, that I would rather not suffer imposed advertising I did not ask for even if missing out some products.

However, you can have e.g. a magazine that lists computer parts if you want to buy that (as mentioned by another comment), or in a restaurant that has a sign on the wall (or a printed menu) indicating new items, or a news paper might have a section relating to restaurants or movies or whatever else you might want to buy, or there might be publications that specialize in these things if you are deliberately trying to look for them. They should not need to put advertising anywhere, and they should not need to make it excessive or abusive or dishonest like they do, etc.

(Products that they advertise way too much often have some problems other than just the advertising, too.)


Okay, thw question then becomes: How do we get people to deliberatly look?

Say I have this stunning webshop with margins smaller than bezos toilet breaks. How do I survive out there in the jungle?


> Okay, thw question then becomes: How do we get people to deliberatly look?

You don't. Because you don't get to manipulate my attention. That simple.


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