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> I think it would be hard to find an Irish Protestant at that time, no?

Belfast (and the whole of Ulster) was full of them.



And indeed you'll find that Irish protestants in general tended to immigrate to the southern US states and the Catholics were more likely to immigrate to the northern US states (such as they existed at the time). Even till today you'll find a higher ratio of Protestant Irish to Catholic Irish in Georgia than Massachusetts for example.


I was told a while back by a native that 10% of the south was Protestant, though he was talking of the modern day. I don't know how that number would translate historically.


I know that, I'm more wondering what was the amount that immigrated to the US (in relation to Catholic Irish)


Many (including at least two Presidents). They just tended not to identify themselves as plain "Irish".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_American


I don't have exact numbers to hand but I am sure the numbers of Protestant Irish emigrants was very high.

Poverty throughout the counties was common and they wanted to find a new and better life just as much as their Roman Catholic neighbours did.


Did they really consider themselves "Irish", though?


Yes, of course they did.

They were Irish, but the unionists agreed (along with Great Britain) that Ireland should be ruled by the King and be under British rule, and subsequently they all adopt the "British" sect of Christianity (Anglicanism).


No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that.

The relationship between Unionism and Protestantism and Nationalism and Catholicism was and still is much more grey than many realise. The current situation with Northern Ireland makes this appear much more dry-cut than it actually is because NI was set up on sectarian grounds. However, historically many, in fact the majority, of the prime movers in Irish nationalism have been from Anglican backgrounds that would naively be associated with Unionism.

Also, Irish Nationalism was contrary to Unionism, but a good number of prominent Nationalists had Monarchist tendencies too, such as the founder and leader of the original Sinn Fein, Arthur Griffith[1]. Republicanism was something that came out of the more militant strains of Nationalism, as represented by the Irish Republican Brotherhood, who infiltrated Sinn Fein to use it as a vehicle for their own aims.

Moreover, the vast majority of Irish Protestants have been Presbyterian, not Anglican. Anglicanism was the church of the Establishment, not the common people. Presbyterians, being Nonconformist, were subject to many of the discriminatory practices of the various penal laws, just as Catholics were, because they weren't Anglicans, albeit not to quite the same extent. Anglicanism was historically the church of the upper classes and parts of the middle class.

[1] Griffith wasn't technically what you'd call a Monarchist, but he wasn't a Republican either. He supported the idea of an independent Ireland under a dual monarchy with the United Kingdom.


> No, and the situation was and still is a lot more complicated than that.

The question was "Did they [Irish Protestants] really consider themselves "Irish", though?" and the answer is "yes".

> Moreover, the vast majority of Irish Protestants have been Presbyterian, not Anglican.

The Church of Ireland is (and has been in recent history) the second largest Christian "sect" (as I put it earlier) in Ireland after Roman Catholicism. The Church of Ireland follows Anglicanism.

Of course are many many complications to the entire subject but that wasn't the original question, I was referring to the national identification of the Protestant islanders during the time frame of Jensen's claims.


> The Church of Ireland is (and has been in recent history) the second largest Christian "sect" (as I put it earlier) in Ireland after Roman Catholicism. The Church of Ireland follows Anglicanism.

Yes, you're correct in that the CofI is slightly bigger than the Presbyterian churches. However, that's not my main point. What I was disagreeing with was your conflation of Unionism and Anglicanism, which is entirely incorrect.


In the United States, they tended to identify as "Scots-Irish", and had a much more established place in American society (for example, at least three Presidents that I know of were Scots-Irish in the 19th century).


Scots-Irish isn't quite the same thing. Those referred to as 'Scots-Irish' in the US are descendants of Scottish (largely) Presbyterian planters. People who adhere to Anglicanism generally wouldn't consider themselves or be considered 'Scots-Irish'.


About half of Irish (whole-Island) Protestants today are Presbyterians concentrated in the Ulster Plantation (Northern Ireland); those are absolutely the same ethnic group as the Scots-Irish, despite that label not being used in the UK.


Yes, I know that. The issue is that zumtar had mistakenly lumped all Irish Protestants together as Anglicans.


> Yes, of course they did.

Protestants in what is now Northern Ireland could consider themselves eg, 'Ulster Scots'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people


Ulster Scots is a different thing than was they're referring to. Ulster Scots refers to (largely) Presbyterian descendants of Scottish planters who emigrated to the US. Adherents to the Anglican communion wouldn't necessarily consider themselves 'Ulster Scots'.


There are many Ulster Scots who are Scots in Ulster and haven't migrated to the U.S. See the references in the wikipedia link.


I'm Irish, so I'm entirely aware of that. I was specifically referring to those who had.


Your previous comment said:

"Ulster Scots refers to (largely) Presbyterian descendants of Scottish planters who emigrated to the US."

Which implied otherwise.


Brainfart.


For some details and background, Emigration Across the Atlantic: Irish, Italians and Swedes compared, 1800–1950 http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/economic-mig...




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