Our church also uses The City and I'd say it's fine but not great. There's a lot of room for another startup in this space - I've considered it more than once.

The problem for me, on a personal level, is that it's very hard to mix business and the church. On the one hand, the technology used in the church generally lags far behind what is available and there are real benefits to the church body by having tailored technology.

On the other hand, sometimes the new tech doesn't fit for cultural reasons. For example, it still feels unsavory to, say, pass a square credit card reader along with the offering plate.

Additionally, one has to be careful not to be in it merely for the money (which becomes harder as the organization scales). At the entrepreneur you're torn between fiduciary duty to your organization/employees/investors and the (greater) responsibility to God and his church.

It's really hard to keep that balance. Jesus did turn over the tables of the money changers, after all.

In an ideal world your employees/investors are aligned with your vision but in practice, it can get really cloudy. (And we haven't even talked about if you're willing to sell to other denominations yet which, presumably, are using your software as tool to spread an ideology you explicitly believe to be false.)

One model I think could work is for software engineers to found a non-profit and essentially raise funding/customer commitments from larger churches in order to build the software that they'll eventually use.

That said, it's hard enough to find engineers who are "good" in the industry at large, much less when you add in the qualification that they have to be so deeply ideologically in agreement with your vision.

As someone who owns a business that sells exclusively to churches (https://simpledonation.com), I know what that uneasiness can feel like -- the seemingly diametrical goals of building a business to return shareholder capital and serving a market need. And also the denominational thing...

I have by no means figured it all out, but it's been an area in which I've sought counseling and grown considerably. A constant fear I have is being seen as a moneychanger or profiteer.

Ultimately, I've chosen to run Simple Donation as a business. There are so many bad examples of software that churches use and I think having a profitable business gives me the best shot at serving those churches well with great software.

Some US states have introduced a new corporate form for businesses which have both financial and social objectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation

Yeah, I believe those started after I formed corporately. Not sure what the extra benefit is for me at this point.

Do you get feedback from organizations on how much of an increase in donations they receive by going online?

I'm curious what the percentage differences are in total donations.

Yeah, at a minimum they see a bump of 5% in online giving.

Some churches use it specifically for 1-time giving w/o logging in and they see a much larger increase for that type.

I ask people to cancel if they don't see ROI in 3 months. Only 2 cancellations in 2 years.

One way to fix this problem is Bitcoin tithing. http://www.yoism.org.au/blog/bitcoin-tithing

In the past, I've polled my customers and asked about both Bitcoin and Dwolla as low-cost tithing avenues.

They are met with blank stares. Doesn't seem like a felt need at this point.

> (And we haven't even talked about if you're willing to sell to other denominations yet which, presumably, are using your software as tool to spread an ideology you explicitly believe to be false.)

Hopefully that wouldn't be an issue, just like it hopefully isn't an issue for a mechanic from denomination A to work on a bus owned by denomination B or a lineman from denomination A to maintain power lines powering a campus of denomination B. There's nothing particularly theological or beliefs-specific about the product other than "Sunday school" and "prayer request," both of which could probably fit the vast majority of organized religions with a simple title change.

Explain that to the lawyers at Hobby Lobby.

Those situations have very little similarity.

This is something I have been pondering for a bit now. As the chair of my church's outreach ministry, I struggle with church communications. The church is a unique community of groups, sub-groups, etc. And the activities are just as varied. There are many activities that need to be communicated and only so many channels available to do so. Not to mention making sure that everyone is connected and "plugged-in."

You touch on some good points on how to monetize and build a for profit company that is theologically sound. I have this idea that I'm considering for my next venture.

The idea is to build a self-funded startup with a mix of talented developers, designers, and product people. The company would not ever take outside investment so that the focus is never on dollars and return. Instead the focus is to build awesome software that makes a difference (inside and outside the church), grow our craft, and enjoy life. Nobody will earn millions, but we'll sure have fun making a living to support our families.

Ah, welcome to a dilemna I've been wrestling for a couple of years. I actually have an idea/product that has started/stopped a few times that's geared for missionaries, pastors, evangelists, etc.

I just need to find someone smart like the OP here to help execute the vision.

Well said.

I actually built an MVP for a "Kickstarter for Missionaries" crowdfunding project a couple years ago. I thought (and still do, to some degree), it could be a good way for churches and missionaries to get steady/predictable support (which has always been a problem for my friends who do it).

But, the same dilemmas exist. Figuring out a business model I was comfortable with seemed hard. And, like you said, the more open you are about other faiths/sects using your platform, the more likely you are to tick off hardline people.

Yes! I completely agree that there is some improvement possible here. There is a sense in which social networks in general have greatly helped the fund-raising process for missionaries.

I don't mean to seem unscrupulous, but the process of raising money for a missionary is not unlike what is done by a sales rep or a realtor: you have to keep yourself at the top of people's minds or the money dries up.

In that regard, software like facebook and even contactually are invaluable.

But, it seems to me, there's even more work to be done around custom platforms.

That said, how are you going to make money? Take 30% off the top? 10%? People (rightly) want to make their money go as directly as possible and so often won't even pay by credit card because you lose 3% in fees.

These platforms do cost money to run and not every church has someone on staff qualified to host an open-source solution. So if someone doesn't create hosted services that are financially viable, everyone loses out.

I also know several genuinely good people who desire to go to seminary but simply aren't able to take 3 years off of work (because they have families etc.). Of course you always have the risk of folks taking advantage of the system, but in the success / genuine / majority case, I feel that a kickstarter for people who want to do domestic ministry is a real need right now.

If anyone is interested in working on (and working through) these kinds of problems, drop me a line. My email is in my profile.

I think by offering a listing fee (maybe refundable if they don't meet their funding goals?) would be a viable/ethical approach here. Flat fees are as fair as it gets. Also, be sure to start with a church that isn't your own; if it doesn't work, it's not like the group of people you see every week (or however often you attend) will look at you any differently.

I'd be interested in working with you on this. I've thought a lot about a product like this and could sell it pretty easily to my existing customer base.

Drop me an email and we can chat (I didn't see your contact info in your profile).

I've been building out a similar MVP with church planting in mind rather than Missionaries, however I've had the thought that Missionaries could utilize the platform as well. I'm working with Several church planters and a Church planting network to validate the idea right now. I'd love to hear more about your findings and see how we might be able to help each other.

Interesting. A complete atheist would be best able to run a church software business dispassionately, but wouldn't grasp the problem domain as well as an adherent of the faith. Perhaps this is a great place for complementary co-founders.

That's not an assumption I'd make, actually (that they wouldn't grasp the problem domain) -- there are plenty of atheists who were born into religious families, but left the religion.

I doubt most of them would be comfortable launching a business that would exclusively support efforts to sustain and spread religion, though; I know I wouldn't.

Agree re. Stripe. YMMV but in Australia when people give to their Church via CC it is tax deductible.

In general, churches in Australia are not tax deductible.

Some of the activities they perform may be, but that requires a relatively complex separation of accounts where one "business" is deductible, but the other is not.

It can be done, but my experience is that most churches don't bother since the administrative burden exceeds the value.

I must admit to being ignorant of the specifics. My brother in law is a pastor, and he mentioned that he tithes/donates by CC because it is tax deductible. He used to teach accounting, so I am sure that he understands the system.

in the US, any giving to the church is tax deductible -- as long as the church documents it. This is why churches often have little envelopes that you can write your name on when giving cash.