Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Why does most of the world continue to use the pin tumbler locks, when the disc tumbler lock (invented in 1907) is almost impossible to pick?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_tumbler_lock



Burglars in general do not read MIT guides. Even if some might, security is still a weakest link problem. The easiest way into a house is by window, the letterbox, etc, speaking of locks in general it's easiest just to use a bolt cutter.


Precisely.

Locks are mere tamper-proof seals, lock-picking is the art of breaking into those seals without breaking them.

I have seen a lot of broken locks in my time (I worked in a the bicycle industry). I have also removed quite a lot of locks in my time (the days working in a bike shop).

Thieves just use those big bolt cutters that cost £10 or so and get the job done in seconds. Even the most expensive locks are fair game for this basic approach, the biggest fear is that there is some CCTV somewhere. The amount of 'pin tumblers' makes no difference.

In the bike shop where there is the choice of the bolt-croppers, the oxy-torch, the disc-cutter, the vice, the big hammer and so on one doesn't think for one moment 'oh, I will just download that lock-picking guide off the internet, follow the instructions and be in here in a minute...'. The feature I always found charming was how many bicycle locks have a plastic coating around the cable. This makes it very easy to use a normal saw. The plastic works as a guide meaning the saw does not slip.

Hence, for my own bicycle I use a £4.99 combination number lock for that short shopping trip to town and a £24.99 D-lock for the company bike shed.


The canonical quote is that "we lock our doors to keep honest people honest."

Practically, we cannot guarantee the security of our locks, or homes, or cars/bikes, etc. But we erect barriers to help enforce societal norms regarding security and privacy. These can be explicit measures such as door locks and deadbolts, and more holistic things like living in a good neighborhood, meeting your neighbors, preempting the broken windows effect, etc.

The only guarantee, in terms of home security, is a great insurance policy with riders for your major possessions.


>>> speaking of locks in general it's easiest just to use a bolt cutter.

Which is why I never understood the Master Lock commercials where they shoot a bullet into the body of one of their padlocks showing how tough it is.


No, I think you understand the commercial just fine.


And most ironically, no one take notice of the person nonchalantly carrying 36 inch bolt cutters.


Disc Detainer locks are far from impossible to pick: Disc Detainer lock talk from LayerOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv5N6pHXf-E

"We need to start attacking disc detainer locks" from Shmoocon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0PDQUZi74

Nirav Patel's 3D printed DDetainer key: http://eclecti.cc/hardware/physical-keygen-now-for-disc-deta...

Guide to Disc Detainer Locks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnW5GgaDKFc&list=PL7F406AFC7...

But, as to your actual question of "why" there is a lot that goes into it. Henry Robinson Towne is a central figure in particular, but so is the great lock controversy of 1851, which was a watershed moment in how most english-speaking societies dealt with mechanical security ever after.


For those interested in the Great Lock Controversy of 1851: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/crime/features/2013/the_l...


"...the great lock controversy of 1851..." That's so quaint. I wonder if "The Browser Wars", or something of its ilk, will have the same ring to it in 160 years.


oh absolutely, and I try to be as solemn as possible about it:

"I used to be a web developer during the Browser Wars, man ... A veteran, yes. I remember being happy when we could develop for IE7 compatibility ..."

(embellish with stories about getting up at 4am, walking barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways, etc. as you see fit)


Hah, that's funny. I often forget that we may be participating in some future historians most exciting discovery...


Agree. Think the late 1800's is most fascinating period in economic history.



They're very difficult to pick but not impossible. It can be done but it takes time and expertise.


Is it more difficult because the locks are less common?


Says Wikipedia: "Picking the lock is not impossible, but requires a lot of time, a dedicated, professionally made tool and special expertise."


Thanks, I can read Wikipedia. The point is that picking a tumbler lock requires those things too.


So does a half decent pin-tumbler lock.


Abloy has patents on many of the unique features of disc locks and keys that make them harder to pick.

In this case the patents help prevent unauthorized duplication of "secure" keys.


fyi, gambling machines made by Austrian/German conglomerate Novomatic/Löwen Entertainment use Abloy disc tumbler locks for securing the case and access switches.


Best guess? Pin tumbler locks are probably cheaper to produce.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: