''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.''
I think it has lots in common with this:
"Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server."
keep producing more and more bloatware, without any other reasons than "because we have done it".
I think that blindly allowing freedesktop guys to mess up all the traditional Unix startup and now logging tools with some MS-inspired crap for a very questionable reasons is quite a step back.
It is also an example of an over-engineering bias (which comes from OO-only approach) - building up an unnecessary complexity. syslog and shell script based startup procedure are good-enough (and still good enough for sane systems such as BSDs or Plan9), while those who need a specialized logging (or startup) service could create it for themselves, as so many do.
Changing reasonable defaults just because someone is cocksure that we need more xxxxctl and xxxxx-bridge instead of plain old text-files looks like ignorant over-confidence. Those who cannot live without journald could install it manually, why to cause a headache to the rest of us.
I do remember that commercial variant of Suse Linux have tried "an innovative approach" to what a Linux server is. They introduced a set of some in-house made utilities (inspired by Netware I suppose) with non-intuitive logic and millions of command line options no one knows (which cannot be googled). Why, it is a way to success, now you could teach courses, do certification, issue meaningless titles, etc. Thank god its dead. ESX servers, btw, were (or still are) even bigger mess.
I doubt that Fedora is going this way, but the signs are bad.)
What the fuck are you going on about? WildFly is now included as an _available package for install in the repositories_. This is why it is in the release notes.
This is like complaining that any disto is "bloatware" because their repositories include software that you happen to dislike and think is "bloat". $distro is bloated because KDE/GNOME/whatever is an option, right?
I don't know what experience you have with modern Java EE, but it's incredibly modular these days and is no more than a collection of components that can operate independent of each other.
Of course, I am nobody to criticize the sacred things, so there are few links to the people who are worth of paying attention to (and who gave us golang).
So with a handful of out of context citations and some rather retarded points of view (Greenspun WTF?) you are trying to convince people? Really? At least give it _some_ effort. This way it is rather boring...
I had similar sentiments when Arch made the move to systemd but I think I've come to like it. Things seem to be a lot more stable than with initscripts.
For me it looks like a fix for what wasn't broken.
I think that the only reason to re-write something that is good-enough is to make it even simpler, more clear and, in some rare situations, more general (but what could be more general than text files and pipes?)
Imagines someone in physics would say "this equation is not clever-enough, it lacks linear algebra, let's rewrite it using vector notation". Guys in physics are using vectors because it is the most convenient way to represent some aspects of reality, not because it is clever or popular. Similarly, the mantra should be "simplify" (and generalize).
Anyway, thank god, they didn't bring some nice, little "real-time, non-blocking log collector" written in a nice, object-oriented, modular NodeJS with some nice little MongoDB-powered clustered storage.
As mentioned in many of the previous threads: Did you ever had to maintain services? Debug why openldap wouldn't startup? Then figure out what the actual command it would run? This all to get to the stdout&stderr output? While journal makes this available by default? Aside from just reliably stopping services and reliably being able to configure services (configuring, not editing shell scripts which all are similar but different enough to be annoying).
Cool that you didn't run into the various issues that systemd makes easy. But various others have. Suggest giving it a try.
I think it has lots in common with this:
"Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server."
keep producing more and more bloatware, without any other reasons than "because we have done it".
I think that blindly allowing freedesktop guys to mess up all the traditional Unix startup and now logging tools with some MS-inspired crap for a very questionable reasons is quite a step back.
It is also an example of an over-engineering bias (which comes from OO-only approach) - building up an unnecessary complexity. syslog and shell script based startup procedure are good-enough (and still good enough for sane systems such as BSDs or Plan9), while those who need a specialized logging (or startup) service could create it for themselves, as so many do.
Changing reasonable defaults just because someone is cocksure that we need more xxxxctl and xxxxx-bridge instead of plain old text-files looks like ignorant over-confidence. Those who cannot live without journald could install it manually, why to cause a headache to the rest of us.
I do remember that commercial variant of Suse Linux have tried "an innovative approach" to what a Linux server is. They introduced a set of some in-house made utilities (inspired by Netware I suppose) with non-intuitive logic and millions of command line options no one knows (which cannot be googled). Why, it is a way to success, now you could teach courses, do certification, issue meaningless titles, etc. Thank god its dead. ESX servers, btw, were (or still are) even bigger mess.
I doubt that Fedora is going this way, but the signs are bad.)