I always said saying "I told you so." when stuff like this started getting revealed would feel like a hollow phrase. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about these issues, and were mostly rejected as crackpot "conspiracy theorists". While there are plenty of those around, maybe I could use this slight moment of pseudo-clarity to propose something.
I could tell you where this is going (removal of ex post facto, and eventually algorithmic based pre-crime), and who is largely behind it, but once again most of you would probably perform the standard knee-jerk reaction against "conspiracy theory", only to wait around and repeat the same kind of stuff you are saying now, whenever the next steps are put into action.
We curious geeks have been too cocky, always thinking we could use our superior knowledge of technology to beat "the man". Well boys, the man is learning our tricks, and he's starting to get better at them than us...
The NSA is but a cog in a greater machine, and until we all realize that and start conversing on what/who that machine is, we will continue to spin our wheels uselessly.
Indeed. I always follow The Money because that's who owns the government.
America, including the NSA, is owned by the same small cartel that have the monopoly on the issuing of our currency and credit. Coincidentally, they're the same cartel we're "indebted" to.
Most people have never heard of the four largest banks in the world:
One reason I love HN is due to the contributors having better than average critical thinking skills (IMO). Unfortunately that isn't enough when it comes to asking someone to believe that all governments might be controlled by a secret organization, or something equally as sinister and unbelievable.
Since we know that our (USA) entire financial system is backed by (Federal Reserve) bankers that loan money without moral guidelines, it could be conceived that a family like the Rothschild are at the top of the world power hierarchy. What do they always say in the detective movies, "follow the money".
OK, I will take the bait. What do you think the greater machine is?
Here is my take:
You do not need to posit an organized Illuminati-like conspiracy to have cause for concern. We can find plenty to worry about even if we limit ourselves to properties of the system that are either emergent or driven by natural human behavioural traits.
For example, a lot of people in positions of authority got there because they have authoritarian instincts, and seek self-validation not only by dominating and controlling others, but by ensuring that their position of authority and dominance is recognized by others.
This is very human, and very instinctive, and operates at an unconscious, almost sexual level. The alpha male will seek to dominate the pack and to remind competing males of his superior status. You do not have to consciously be aware that you are seeking power, money and sex, but you are, nonetheless.
This instinct can operate both consciously and unconsciously. Those who make decisions to concentrate power and authority, to separate and elevate themselves from the general population - they do not have to be consciously aware of what they are doing. They can and will rationalize their beliefs and actions to make it fit in with the dominant culture of their peers. This process is called confabulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation) and everybody does it all the time - it is the only way that we can make sense of our lives and live in a human body without going insane with the sheer irrationality of it all.
These instincts manifest themselves in lots of small, individually inconsequential decisions. Normally, this is OK, because our social and bureaucratic technologies are (were) too ineffective for too much harm to be done. The ongoing march of modern information technology, however, looks likely to change that, meaning that the unconsciously malicious instincts of humans in positions of authority can become amplified and magnified.
I would be particularly worried if this resulted in a feedback loop - so that increased power and increased power-seeking behaviour mutually reinforce one another in a runaway process. I cannot readily identify such a loop in operation though -- can anybody else?
I hope I am not responding to too many people and seeming spammy, but here goes.
I agree completely that we do not necessarily need to posit and organized "Illuminati-like conspiracy" to have cause for concern. There are plenty of studies showing increasing likely-hood of sociopaths rising to the top of power structures, and is often just due to how to system as an autonomous entity functions.
What I do posit though, is that, in fact, there is, borrowing your own term for lack of a better one, an "illuminati-like conspiracy". I have been considering an attempt at scholarly paper on the matter for some time now, but let me try to be terse and possibly just point you in the right direction, because I don't think I'm quite prepared to defend the full assertion in public yet.
I will start with your question about power feedback loops. Here is a paper regarding the global network of corporate control that anyone interested in the global power structure should read. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1107.5728v2.pdf
I even contacted one of the researchers (Glattfelder) during the Libor scandal, wondering if we could use some of the new information to analyze the scandal better. He said it would be extremely difficult due to how good the companies are at obfuscating their dealings.
Now, as far as the conspiracy, I would like to point out one thing. I do not claim that there is but a single conspiracy (a trap assertion many fall into making), and instead would say there there are but a small number of very powerful ones operating at any one time, sometimes in competition and sometimes cooperatively. Regarding the "illuminati-like conspiracy" itself, I have one primary reading source for you, if you are genuinely interested in the subject. It should be enough to get you started on the more serious analysis of what I am talking about.
http://www.amazon.com/Anglo-American-Establishment-Quigley-C...
Just the MICC in general. I remember talking to Mudge on the phone about two years ago, asking him how Darpa was treating him. He said he loved it... guess where he is now? Google.
The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they believe their theories to be 99% certain instead of the most probable 1%. "I told you so" goes both ways except that conspiracy theorists never accept and admit it, there will always be another conspiracy to cover the current one.
In the overall game it simply makes much more mathematical sense to treat conspiracy theorists as crackpots since they will so often get it wrong. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Negative. The problem with conspiracy theorists, or any group for that matter, is that they are so easily put into that group and then dismissed as a whole. Personally I think at the core of the matter is an enormous imbalance of importance placed on the authority or source of an argument, to the detriment of argumentative logos. Possibly some form of the genetic fallacy.
For example, you deride an entire "group" of people for believing their postulations to be 99% probable and assert that instead they are more likely 1% probable. I would say you just fucking pulled those statistics out of your ass, the very act for which you are deriding the group for! Such irony in a single sentence has been seldom found.
Sure, I agree with you that there are a plethora of quite frankly ridiculous conspiracy theories (not to be confused with the theorists themselves, who can often be just as ridiculous). That being said though, you are in fact completely wrong when you say "In the overall game it simply makes much more mathematical sense to treat conspiracy theorists as crackpots since they will so often get it wrong." and here is why.
Conspiracies are a driving factor throughout history. To ignore them in the past and in the present is to dismiss the very core their historicity. To dismiss them based on some flawed, arbitrary assertions about mathematical calculations that have no academic backing is simply daft.
Also, as I said before, there are indeed plenty of logically absurd theories... but why exactly are they absurd? One, they defy logic, but more importantly, the more absurd ones are often based on no evidence whatsoever. If you have such a difficult time sifting through the completely absurd to find the logically probable/possible in order to more finely tune your engagement, that is a deficiency on your part, and no one else.
I'm trying to think of an analogy to this... It's very much like the general reaction to homeless people. Many people have a general reaction to homeless people in which they assume they are either scammers, drug addicts, or lazy. They may have had a bad experience with a homeless person, and now seem to think almost all homeless people are not worth the time/effort. I understand how they can come to that conclusion, but the statistical facts do not support their argument, and, similarly, the statistical facts do you not support yours either, because you have essentially taken the same approach to "conspiracy theorists".
You are a conspiracy theorist. By definition, your powers of cognitive thinking are essentially retarded. This is what defines the conspiracy theorist.
Coincidence theorists, the ones that believe whatever they're told by whatever authority figure they believe in this week, are the ones with stunted cognitive abilities.
"Terrorists are the problem we must address" is no different from "Satan is trying steal your soul" or "Commies are gonna destroy our way of life" as a means of manipulating the more gullible people in a population. It's worked for centuries.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you need to concentrate on."
-George Bush, repeating advice given to him by Robert Strauss
I always said saying "I told you so." when stuff like this started getting revealed would feel like a hollow phrase. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time talking about these issues, and were mostly rejected as crackpot "conspiracy theorists". While there are plenty of those around, maybe I could use this slight moment of pseudo-clarity to propose something.
I could tell you where this is going (removal of ex post facto, and eventually algorithmic based pre-crime), and who is largely behind it, but once again most of you would probably perform the standard knee-jerk reaction against "conspiracy theory", only to wait around and repeat the same kind of stuff you are saying now, whenever the next steps are put into action.
We curious geeks have been too cocky, always thinking we could use our superior knowledge of technology to beat "the man". Well boys, the man is learning our tricks, and he's starting to get better at them than us...
The NSA is but a cog in a greater machine, and until we all realize that and start conversing on what/who that machine is, we will continue to spin our wheels uselessly.