Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Customer protection isn't supposed to come from private third parties in the first place.

Look at it from this angle: why is VISA or Stripe the arbiter of disputes between you and Netflix ? If Netflix made you pay a fee that is not part of your contract or you didn't initiate, you should be able to retrieve that money without asking a racket business to cover you.

And while banks handle fraud issues, arguably they shouldn't be the one reading your contracts and deciding how to interpret it. Some customer agency or small claims court should be more fitting ?

Perhaps you're in a place where that just wouldn't work, fair enough, but the issue should be on why you don't have these laws or institution, not why there's no private middle-men fixing the deals.



> Some customer agency or small claims court should be more fitting? Perhaps you're in a place where that just wouldn't work, fair enough, but the issue should be on why you don't have these laws or institution, not why there's no private middle-men fixing the deals.

In the US, this is effectively non-existent these days.

Best case, now rare, there isn’t an arbitration clause in the EULA, so you have individuals suing companies in small claims.

The problem there is scale.

A company can screw over a lot more people than people will spend time pushing back against a company. Because fundamentally, a company doesn’t give a shit about maintaining a relationship with an angry customer.

The benefit of using payment intermediaries to run arbitration is that the company does want to continue having a relationship with them and is therefore incentivized to care more about the case than they would otherwise.

Granted, there are a lot of ills from payment processors too! But waving a wand and suggesting bank to bank transfers alone fixes the issue is naive.


Because VISA has two customers, me and Netflix. They want that to continue so they are in a good place to be efficient arbirtrators.

Anyone else will be slow/inefficient (courts) or biased (Me or Netflix).


> slow/inefficient

I find it interesting to want speed in deciding who should get screwed in a transaction.

There are economic advantages in people giving around their payment information, but the social impacts (the very existence of Visa/Mastercard and their influence on businesses or prices) aren't worth it IMHO.

IMHO people should be responsible of how they handle the keys to their money, and better tools should be given to secure and manage that, instead of a Big Brother like middlemen.

I mean, you don't pay cash at a restaurant with a string stuck to your money so you can pull it back three months after, because arguing with the restaurant feels too inefficient.


> If Netflix made you pay a fee that is not part of your contract or you didn't initiate, you should be able to retrieve that money without asking a racket business to cover you.

Allowing customers to claw back money unilaterally opens the door for customers to make a purchase, receive the product, then fraudulently take their money back.

There needs to be a third party in the middle to determine if a chargeback is fraudulent. Chargeback fraud already exists, and what you're proposing makes the problem significantly worse.


My phrasing was poor, I agree there should be a third party to handle the dispute, I just think it should not be a private business.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: