> We don’t have to stretch, plenty of people have ADHD and have taken MDMA, I can tell you personally that MDMA is in no way a substitute for regular adhd medication. Like, not even close. MDMA is basically a social/lovey high that mildly distorts your vision and senses, it is not something you would take regularly to help focus on work. And taking it once isn’t going to help you focus better after taking it

Your end point - that MDMA is not a substitute for ADHD medication - is correct, but the reasoning you're providing is faulty.

Even assuming you were taking a pure and unadulterated substance - which I'm willing to bet you weren't[0] - this personal anecdote doesn't really refute the original point. Set, setting, and dosing make a huge difference. MDMA is much closer to methamphetamine - both biochemically and in its effect - than most people realize. And methamphetamine is itself a prescribed ADHD medication, fairly similar in effect (when dosed appropriately) to Dexedrine, which itself largely interchangeable with the medication everyone knows and associates with ADHD: Adderall.

MDMA can actually be taken to improve focus, in the right dose and setting. However, the reason that it shouldn't be used for this purpose is because MDMA is more selective for serotonin than most other amphetamines, and serotonin depletion and downregulation means that it can't be used this way regularly (ie, on the order of weeks-to-months to restore baseline levels).

[0] Virtually all MDMA outside of clinical settings is contaminated to some degree, usually with another amphetamine.

Have you taken mdma (let’s say, the brown powder which is typically considered less likely to be adulterated) and adderall? I’m sorry but I just can’t believe anybody who has experienced the two would say that mdma would help focus as well as a regular adhd medication.

You can’t just look at the structures or names and assume that fully explains the effects. Yes, it’s an amphetamine. Imagine there was some form of alcohol that both got you drunk but also gave you a strong cannabis high - if you went a bar serving that you’d notice entirely different behavior compared to regular alcohol. That’s like MDMA compared to a regular amphetamine - not in that it’s like cannabis but it stacks a completely different and overpowering effect on top of the base it gets from being a phenethylamine.

Yes, regular MDMA usage is harmful to the brain much more than other amphetamines, that’s just another reason it would not be a suitable replacement.

> the brown powder which is typically considered less likely to be adulterated

This is a very common misconception. Just because MDMA is sold in powder form does not make it less likely to be adulterated, and color is a misleading (and easily manipulated) heuristic.

You can test for the presence of hypothesized adulterants, though most people unfortunately don't, and tests will fail to detect heterogeneous adulterants or adulterants in small quantities. Furthermore, reagants test for the presence of specific hypothesized adulterants; they cannot test for the absence.

The only way to be 100% sure is to use a mass spectrometer, and very few people will have access to use a mass spectrometer for testing street drugs outside of law enforcement (who emphatically cannot be trusted for these purposes[0]). That leaves clinicians, researchers, and a small number of groups who perform drug testing services for recreational users. From those, we have a pretty good sense that unadulterated MDMA is quite rare[1], which means that comparing subjective experiences of recreational (street) drug use to subjective experiences of pharmaceutical drug use is methodologically fraught.

> You can’t just look at the structures or names and assume that fully explains the effects.

I did not say that it fully explains the effects. However, it does provide some information. And in this particular case, the differences are dramatically overstated, due to the massive difference in set, setting, dosage, and chemical composition (possible adulterants).

My point is that you can't compare your subjective experience of these two drugs to draw the conclusion you're drawing, because there are many different confounding variables that would each explain the difference in effect you're describing, let alone in combination.

Again, I do agree that MDMA should not be used as a treatment for ADHD. I'm just pointing out the problem in drawing this conclusion based on subjective personal (and presumably recreational) experiences with the drug.

[0] Law enforcement routinely lies about and misrepresents facts around drugs, for various purposes. It's most commonly seen with regards to fentanyl, but by and large you can't trust LEO claims about tests performed on any drugs seized without independent means of corroboration.

[1] That doesn't mean that the adulterated versions are necessarily harmful, but it does provide an additional wrinkle when using it to draw inferences about hypothetical clinical use (which would not have any adulterants).

I am sure everyone is well aware that MDMA can be adulterated and that physical presentation can be misleading. Sure, we can clinically study it to confirm or deny what I’m saying. But you’ve still never admitted that you’ve taken it (I suspect you haven’t) and I stand by my assertion that nobody who has would consider it suitable for ADHD - even if you can’t rule out that a random commenter like me may have had an adulterated experience or analogue.

> I stand by my assertion that nobody who has would consider it suitable for ADHD

If you modified that superlative to read "Most people who have taken MDMA would not consider it suitable for ADHD", then yes, I would agree with that statement.

I just don't find it a particularly profound or useful one, because most people have a particularly bad understanding of how recreational experiences translate to therapeutic ones.

(Most recreational methamphetamine or cocaine users would find it hard to imagine therapeutic uses for either drug, for example, even though both are well-established.)