Yeah, that sentence tells everyone who's paying attention all they need to know. These folks are not operating a legitimate business and they're mad that their fencing operation can't handle stolen Apple products.
Most people selling their Macs do not even know that they have to formally pass ownership on to someone else, as though it were a car. This is a restriction that was not there pre-M1.
> Most people selling their Macs do not even know that they have to formally pass ownership on to someone else
Then the person who buys it from them is going to send it back, and they'll know next time, or however that gets resolved. If they're selling it to a reputable commercial entity, that entity will know it needs to be done, and will ask them to do it first. Every iPhone I've sold to a company in the last x years has needed this process done...
But it has been there for a good decade for iPhones.
The buyer should know this and ask the seller to unlock their device(s). And if it's a legit seller, you can contact them afterwards and have them unlock it.
> But it has been there for a good decade for iPhones.
And iPhones still get stolen. As much as people may not like theft, it is less of a social ill than waste is.
If you want to deter theft, work towards a society that doesn't drive people to thievery, rather than trying to solve it with weak technical solutions that do nothing to address the underlying problem. Apple could be more effective at preventing theft by donating a billion dollars a year to fight poverty, although that would risk doing some good for the world.
> As much as people may not like theft, it is less of a social ill than waste is.
That's... a take. It sounds like you don't personally believe in property rights, and therefore think solving global poverty (an intractable problem that has never had a meaningful solution in all of human history) is a better way to solve theft than just addressing theft directly. The weird thing is people steal even when they aren't experiencing poverty.
Theft is an unalloyed social ill, and the only examples of theft that can be remotely justified are contrived examples of theft under oppression of basic survival needs, which is not the context, socially or otherwise, of the places where iPhones and laptops are being stolen, so not really relevant. Theft is wrong. Theft is social ill that has far-reaching consequences and many second and third order effects in society. Ending theft is a good thing, and is more than worth the trade-off of the minimal additional waste (considering aluminum is very recyclable).
> That's... a take. It sounds like you don't personally believe in property rights
I allege that this is a take. It's possible to believe in property rights while also understanding that human desperation drives people to theft. The vast majority of people resorting to thievery were driven to it because of the circumstances of their life, not because they're doing it for kicks. In a battle between property rights and human rights, at some point human rights takes precedence. You don't need to go Full Communism, you just need to acknowledge that desperate societies are not polite or prosperous societies.
Sure, then we can consider the category of human rights may contain (among other things) the right to personal property, as well as the right to be assured of your next meal, and there is no law of nature that says that rights cannot be in conflict. In a society of extreme scarcity, the latter may be unachievable. In a prosperous society like the one that I live in, the latter is entirely achievable, although sabotaged by short-sighted people who have yet to understand that treating crime at the source--human desperation--is more effective and efficient than treating the symptoms of crime.
> as well as the right to be assured of your next meal
No such right seems to exist, in my view. That said, we have a duty and obligation as a society to help out those in need, but this is not the same thing as this being a human right. That meal requires the labor of another, and there is no human right in my viewpoint that causes the enslavement of someone else.
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether or not we believe it to exist. If given the choice between crime and starvation, people will choose crime. One can believe in the inviolability of personal property all they want; they'll change their tune when hunger sets in.
> That meal requires the labor of another, and there is no human right in my viewpoint that causes the enslavement of someone else.
Sure. But nature is not so kind. You have food, and someone is coming for it. Your option is to either kill them or give it to them. If you would die without that food, then the moral choice is obvious. If you have so much food that it would be physically impossible for you to notice the loss of any of it, then the alternative is true.
Hopefully, now people will know this. And it is a good thing. There are plenty of stories of people selling their laptops without wiping data and laptop falling in wrong hands.
They don't need to "pass ownership", just hit the reset all content button (on modern devices). Any competent recycling/disposal process tells people to do this.
And if they don't, they can delete the device from iCloud.com (Find My) to bypass the issue.
This is wrong. Stuff makes it into the recycle/waste stream all the time without the owners careful de-authing. People die and their estates are liquidated. Things are damaged and discarded, or lost and written off, all the time.
Accusing someone trying to keep electronics out of the trash of laundering stolen goods is not ok.
You’re not the one paying the “small price”, the planet is the one paying it. Given that, I don’t think you get to say if it’s a small price or not. But as i’ve addressed in a root level comment - this is not an either-or situation, we can have both e-waste recycling and even better anti-theft measures: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34506120
I get to say anything I want. In any case the planet is reaping other rewards from the deal, and the tradeoff is worth it. And ewaste does not go away in any scenario other than humans going away, which is not on the table as far as I know.
The current mass extinction that's happening doesn't really care if you have a "healthy society". Even if we decide we only care about humans, widespread lung issues, massive deaths in the wake of heat waves, and of course cancer...
I find it hard to believe that corporations with this volume of (short term!) device turnover don't have basic device management in place, and the staff to operate it. Managed Apple devices are enrolled during prestage, which means the administrating account is able to unlock them independent of the employee Apple ID.
You would need a combination of very high cashflow and lax/incompetent device management, plus a direct contact that grabs large amounts of these "used" computers without applying the most basic of processes for making sure the devices being repurposed can be, well, repurposed.
I want to have good faith, but this sounds a lot like "thousands of quasi-new, pricey laptops are sold to us with a 'former corporate owner' that mysteriously doesn't answer phone or email, and we would like to act like they're ours now."
It seems like this is an issue only if your business plan is to squint very hard every time you look at the source for the "used" laptops you're buying.
At the same time, I do want old laptops to not become e-waste if the approval process is too difficult for previous owners.
The approval process needs to ensure that some enterprise IT drone can easily go through a pallet of laptops, wipe them all, and put them on eBay, without depending on Janet from sales properly following the decommissioning process, without requiring them to navigate a phone tree at Apple to read off serial numbers.
If the laptop is more valuable as scrap than as used minus costs of recycling, it will be scrapped. If scrap minus costs of disassembly and hazmat disposal is less than zero, it will end up in the landfill. In spite of all the work going into lead-free components, halide-free solder, and so on, we still don't want that.
That already exists. If you buy a bunch of laptops from apple and use an MDM, it already associates the serial numbers with your account. You can remove the serial numbers from your system at any time, then they are unlocked.
You already have this choice, and it is not incompatible with finding a way to use the machine without its contents (a recycler in this case might be forced to wipe it - win/win). But Apple is just too greedy, and successfully already sold you this as a feature, not a limitation of their own system.
what about when the current owner is no longer known? How many macbooks sit forgotten in a closet for years before being donated? How many millions rely on used, older tech to access technology?
> it is critical we have a solution that does not depend on the previous owner approving
Personally, I don't want anyone "recycling" my old laptop without me having approved it first.