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Healthcare and basic income are crucial for moving towards the next stage of civilizaiton. Like you said, I'm really glad it worked out for them but so, so many people don't get so lucky or are willing to take such a big risk.

How many more dwarf fortresses could we have if we gave people the safety net to follow their dreams? Instead of worrying about basic necessities like food, shelter, and healthcare.



I agree there is a problem with high healthcare costs, and food costs especially now.

However what we saw with covid stimulus and unemployment wasn’t the “everyone’s now an artist” outcome that is suggested with UBI.

We definitely saw creatives able to express and build their visions into the world, thanks to the money and additional time.

But we also saw, and still have ongoing, many people who choose not to work [0]. Some percent of these people are suffering from substance abuse. Not to say this is purely the outcome of UBI, but I can’t imagine it helps those individuals with such proclivities for abuse.

Personally I think we should have a good UBI at the least, qualified for individuals who make under a certain amount and who are able and working, or legitimately looking for a job.

There’s a reason many trust fund kids go broke or dive into substance abuse. Sure there are examples of families who would not do this under similar circumstances, but giving out money for no work (assuming one is able to work), leads to hedonic pleasures unless the individual is purposely aware and trying to avoid such sand traps.

[0] - https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm


You seem to be connecting UBI to the "Do not want a job now" category, but I don't think there's any reason to think covid stimulus/unemployment led to much growth in those particular numbers. See https://www.bls.gov/cps/aa2004/cpsaat35.pdf for the same numbers from 2003/2004; they're certainly higher now (~100k vs ~70k, but population increased, so more like 100k vs 80k if we equalize) but not that much higher. And at a glance the biggest increase is in 55+ - so possibly it's largely older people retiring rather than substance abuse or whatever.

I do think UBI has risks, hopefully we can encourage useful pursuits, public works, etc.


Covid was not a great experiment. The stimulus checks were 6+ months apart each and would barely pay rent for the month in which they arrived for anyone not living in a shoebox. And UE has a lot of stipulations about you spending all your time trying to get a new job.


> UE has a lot of stipulations

Absolutely no auditing was being done. Some states require you reach out to or inquire about at least 2 jobs per week, nothing close to "all of your time" YMMV I suppose.

>U.S. watchdog estimates $45.6 billion in pandemic unemployment fraud

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/22/unemploym...


A wage slave is going to have a hard time adjusting to freedom.

That might seem a bit of an extreme statement but the reality is that as soon as children enter school they are steadily stripped of their creativity in favor of discipline and obedience. They are raised in a capitalist society where they are told that their worth is tied to their job. And they spend a huge chunk of their lives doing what their boss tells them.

As far as the stimulus check, these were people trying to survive a global crisis and managed to get a break from the drudgery of their degrading, exploitative jobs.

You can't make claims about human nature without considering the context in which these events are occurring.


> but giving out money for no work (assuming one is able to work), leads to hedonic pleasures

It sounds like you think this is bad. Why?


> Personally I think we should have a good UBI at the least, qualified for individuals who make under a certain amount and who are able and working, or legitimately looking for a job.

The "U" in UBI means "Universal". Once you add any kind of means testing you ruin the whole idea.


> How many more dwarf fortresses could we have if we gave people the safety net to follow their dreams?

So, so many. Linux is a good example. Linus has talked about how he was able to spend a lot of time on getting Linux off the ground because back in the 80s and 90s, study allowances in Finland were very, very generous. Took him like 8 years to graduate, and during that time he didn't have to worry at all about finding a job to pay rent and buy food. These days, the system is similar, but they do monitor your progress more closely and will cut off the allowance if you don't progress in your studies. (ask me how I know :P)


Imagine if he had a boss breathing down his neck and daily standups lol. I don't think people realize how much our society saps our humanity and kills our creative energies and our desires to build things.


More people building dwarf fortresses means less people doing whatever they are right now.

While some jobs may be completely pointless, I think we would quickly find that we actually need people doing boring jobs because society would fall apart without them and then no one gets to build video games.


I’d imagine the people offering those boring jobs would have to make them pretty appealing. Perhaps better pay, better work hours, etc.

I don’t think jobs would go away like you seem to imply. When I say taking care of peoples needs I don’t mean giving everyone a mansion.


Maybe. I suspect the amount of actual work to be done has dropped a lot. Surely it's worth trying a few steps in that direction.


That doesn't follow. The maximum possible human attention span will still be 24 hours a day in the future.

The current entertainment market already saturates this several hundred times over.

Creating several dozen more dwarf fortresses won't do anything since they will just take attention away from each other.

Since information can be replicated for almost nothing.

Whereas physical labor can't be replicated nearly as easily.




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