It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know.
I guarantee that in many (likely the vast majority) of these cases someone in management is aware and is pursuing a don't ask don't tell policy because they don't want to deal with the fallout.
It's extremely common to work while on a visitor's visa in another country, for example. I bet there is not a single manager reading this comment who has not had one of their employees send work emails while traveling internationally on a visitor's visa.
I have several friends who are doing the digital nomad thing, working all over the world while ostensibly traveling on visas that prohibit work. If they officially asked HR, HR would be forced to officially tell them to not work. But they're never going to ask, and their direct managers are never going to report the situation.
I know of several situations as well where the employee moved. The company response is pretty much universally "you can't do it so please don't tell us about it because if it's ever put in writing we have to act on it"
> It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know.
If a company doesn't want to know you shouldn't be doing business with that company.
Sure some of these cases are John Doe wanting to live as a secret expat but not all.
In a remote world, you have to know. There are numerous fake employee scams that have a number of different outcomes that present exactly in this manner.
1) Steal or forge a decent looking identity.
2) Have a face that interviews and attends some of the early weeks on camera then slides back to off camera
3) Profit whether it's theft or double-dipping or code farms
This isn't a pretend scenario. It's active.
Depending on your vertical and internal zero trust architecture a breach of this nature could be devastating.
So sure, maybe that employee is lying about their location to soak a big salary under a cheap cost of living but maybe they are something much darker and you can't leave that stone unturned.
Within the EU, it would likely be considered an invasion of worker privacy (indiscriminate screening of where employees are logging in from).
Even if it weren't an invasion of privacy, as you say, companies want to be able to point and say 'look, we have a policy, you aren't allowed!' and blame workers for breaking the rules rather than trying to solve the (admittedly complex) tax regulations about working outside the country you are normally employed in.
Not to the country you’re visiting. I had to attest to the German government that I would not send any emails or write any reports on my recent work trip there. Else, I needed a work permit.
They're degrees of the same thing. In my experience companies don't want to know about it if at all possible.
In some cases working on a vacation is a more serious issue - I have heard stories of employees remote working from sanctioned countries and employers finding out after the fact.
My point is that it's typically not a cloak and dagger situation described above, with an employee going to great technical lengths to hide their whereabouts.
Generally speaking, the immediate manager is aware and is pursuing a policy of willful ignorance. Often when rumors percolate to HR, HR will very quietly say that they don't want to know and to clean it up so they don't ever have to.
I don't know of any companies attempting to actively document this kind of thing. They don't want to know, and they'll only respond if they are forced to acknowledge the situation.
Potentially the case, but this article was about two people who were going to great lengths to hide their whereabouts from their employers.
> I don't know of any companies attempting to actively document this kind of thing.
Well, not all companies tolerate casual lies, especially those that impact tax liability. At my organization, you'd be terminated for any willful lie in an instant based solely on a violation of trust... even if it didn't open the company to any tax or legal liability.
Certainly the official policy is that you'll be terminated. Almost every HR department would say this if asked.
Reality is often different. Companies are diverse collections of many different people with a diversity of incentives who all enforce policies in very different ways. When these things happen there are many layers of management who will more often than not try to avoid the problem.
Maybe at a large org. I don't work at a large org. There is no difference in official policy and effective policy in an org where they are both controlled by the same person (or by a few people who closely agree)
Also, there are larger organizations where matters of trust are a critical part of the job, there are operational safeguards in place to account for lapses in trustworthiness, and concerns surrounding this are taken more seriously.
No; they're not. Intention often matters in immigration. If the purpose of your stay in a country is tourism, that is one thing. If the purpose of your stay is to work remotely then that is a different thing.
Your original reply was to a post saying: Sending an email on vacation is one thing. Setting up residency is something else entirely.
Those do not have the same intention. In the first case, the email is incidental to the vacation. In the second case, the purpose is to work (which defies the claim to be "on vacation" in the first place).
No-one is confused about whether they're going on a foreign vacation (taking vacation time, telling their colleagues they're not going to be available etc) and handling a few emails vs. setting out to work remotely from another country that might have a superior climate. The suggestion that these are the same thing based on observing that both involve work email in a foreign country is pretty obviously ridiculous.
If you tell the immigration officer at the border that you're planning to work remotely with your tourist visa, they're going to put you on the first plane home.
I guarantee that in many (likely the vast majority) of these cases someone in management is aware and is pursuing a don't ask don't tell policy because they don't want to deal with the fallout.
It's extremely common to work while on a visitor's visa in another country, for example. I bet there is not a single manager reading this comment who has not had one of their employees send work emails while traveling internationally on a visitor's visa.
I have several friends who are doing the digital nomad thing, working all over the world while ostensibly traveling on visas that prohibit work. If they officially asked HR, HR would be forced to officially tell them to not work. But they're never going to ask, and their direct managers are never going to report the situation.
I know of several situations as well where the employee moved. The company response is pretty much universally "you can't do it so please don't tell us about it because if it's ever put in writing we have to act on it"