And don't flip out too much when you catch them learning to avoid the control. That's an important lesson for them to learn, because once they're grown and out of the nest, the people trying to control, monitor, and limit their access to information are not doing it for the victims' benefit.

Oh, my son figured out some of them and I congratulated him. He’s actually figured out a bunch, but he’s also old enough that it’s time for him to start getting more access.

The kids are not smart enough yet to understand the threats that face them even when I try to explain. I have Pfsense setup on the house with pfblockerng and several firewall rules and other settings. I gave them Linux computers and GrapheneOS phones with VOIP and burner SIMs. They are pretty happy with them. I also have a Nextcloud, XMPP, email, and other server apps setup for them. People get locked into the first tech they use which Apple and others are well aware of. It is your duty to set them right from the beginning.

Note that this can have the opposite of the intended effect: "Oh, my parents are so crazy, everyone uses this tech, it's _fine_."

Not sure if there's any avoiding this.

They understand the reasons and feel ahead of their peers. Their friends want to learn more from me.

Sounds like you've won then!

I'm glad that there's not only hope, but hope to successfully pass that hope on.

Acknowledging up front that I don't have kids, if I did, it would be extremely important to me to teach them that there is no such thing as privacy on the internet.

If you want them to grow up to be adults who live in the world, drive that lesson home: Every single thing they ever do on the internet is being tracked and monitored and can be shared with anyone, at any time, especially the people they'd least like to see it.

"Online privacy" is an oxymoron. Sure, there are ways to be much more secure about it than others. Teach them to use them. Raise them to be "that kid" who understands why their messages should always be encrypted and self-destructing.

The world will not respect your children's privacy on the internet. They need to know that, and the earlier, the better. Don't Santa Claus them on this. Don't set them up for failure.

Good point. I take a pretty hands off approach with my kids, but they know I'm not afraid to dig in and figure out what they've been doing. I dabble in digital forensics and have a networking background. This keeps them in line for the most part, but you have to be diligent as a parent. There's no excuse for ignoring your kids.

I agree. You shouldn’t have draconian restrictions and monitoring up until their 18th birthday, but it’s the parents job to gradually scale up the freedom as the child matures rather than letting them swim straight into the deep end right away.

I know the tired “back in my day” stories about how kids were less supervised decades ago and they turned out fine, but I think different times call for different measures. When my parents grew up in farm country, their parents knew every other family nearby and had a good idea of what to expect by letting their kids wander around the neighborhood. The internet is nothing like that. You really do need to gradually introduce internet freedom to kids and be able to provide some parental guidance and context as they grow up. You can’t protect against everything, but there’s a huge difference between letting kids play in a few kid-friendly places and just letting them discover whatever comes their way.

I think some people forget that restrictions are malleable. If a kid wants to use a certain website that isn’t on the allow list, they can ask and we can give it a quick review and approval. Setting boundaries isn’t an end to exploration.

>You’re their parent, not their friend. You can’t be both.

Sure you can. And the only reason you are saying otherwise is you don't know how to do both.

At some point you’re going to have to choose one or the other. You can only do both until that happens.

I don't know what issues you apparently have with your kids, but stop projecting that on the rest of us who have managed a healthy balance.

I don’t know what you think being the parent means that you react so strongly to the idea?

Let me flip that around on you - what do YOU think being a parent means which is mutually exclusive with being a friend?

Would you ever deny a friend something they wanted to do that you knew wasn’t good for them?

You aren’t responsible for your friends.

> Would you ever deny a friend something they wanted to do that you knew wasn’t good for them?

Ahm...yes? A friend isn't characterized by how much they agree with you. It's perfectly valid to say no.

I would definitely try to stop my friend from doing something I see as unhealthy or dangerous.

As others have said - absolutely, yes. Responsibility has very little to do with it, it's all about wanting the best outcome for them. And that should apply to both your children and your friends.

but it’s not absolutely one or the other. you can be both a friend most of the time but a parent all of the time

I guess that depends on how you treat your friends.

These sentences lack too much nuance that life has.

You can do both up to a point, but it is true you are a parent first and a friend second.

The problem with the previous statement is - many situations require switching and it's extremely tough to know what to be when. My guess is, if you do worry/think about it, your kids will overall be fine.

Yeah, lots of good points raised in other comments but I agree. For young kids there isn't as much of an upside to freely roaming the internet.

With guidance, children can get all the good stuff while not having to face grooming, bullying, hate spam, or other dangerous traps online.

Once young people need to start giving back, publishing content, selling/purchasing things, networking, etc... then the benefits of the free internet really come into play for them.

My wife and I explain how much privacy that they should expect (not much) and stick to that. This entails playing their Roblox games occasionally and reviewing their browser history.