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Industry software "engineers" trained up in trade schools or worse, without any awareness that they are reimplementing solutions (poorly) to problems that were solved decades ago...and we get...horrible industrial monstrosities like Java

Since Guy Steele coauthored both the Lambda Papers (late 1970's) and the first three editions of the Java specification, I don't think that you can successfully argue that awareness of anything solved by Lisp or Scheme was a problem in the development of Java.

I always got the impression that the goal with Java was to make bad programmers better, not to create the ultimate language (e.g., see http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2004/03/17/halfway_between_the_...)

To use a golf analogy, consider cavity back irons. The average golfer, who struggles to hit it straight, will likely play a lot better with cavity backs. But a really good golfer won't be able to shape shots easily and will feel hamstrung without his blades.



I always got the impression that the goal with Java was to make bad programmers better, not to create the ultimate language

And you would be correct...

http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/m...




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