Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Sorry to be a Scrooge, but I wish people would stop doing this. It's hard enough to make a living as an illustrator in the age of digital photography and photobashing without having to compete with generic (which I mean both descriptively and—sorry—pejoratively) illustration libraries. This stuff undermines the discipline and suggests that its skills are easily acquired and the work is easily done, so there's no reason to compensate people for it.

There's a lot of talk on HN about the importance of paying for things, and while I know that most of that is in opposition to 'paying' with your privacy, which is very different from what I'm addressing here, I think the basic idea of value still applies. It's important to pay for shit sometimes. Forget the ethics of supporting your peers and just think about how it'll get you better quality, custom work.

Open-source is awesome, and I totally support anyone fighting that fight, but this kind of work is pretty clearly aimed at startups trying to penny-pinch their way into the brand signaling and associations afforded by adopting the corporate memphis look. Maybe that's an unfair read, but I can't remember the last time I saw an unfunded open-source project trying to look like every VC-backed lifestyle app that launched over the last six years.

On a particularly bad day, I can't help but feel like this kind of project is leading toward the centralization of art as a whole. It's undeniably stagnating commercial artistry.

Sincerely,

Someone who is still butthurt about Squarespace, et al. killing off small and solo web design/dev shops.



Solo web design/dev is an industry that appeared out of nowhere, filled a massive void for a while, and that vacuum is collapsing in on itself with Squarespace and efforts like this one as the once-impenetrable field becomes commonplace.

But Ikea and custom carpenters coexist. Tailors/seamstresses and Macy's coexist. Programmers and designers will have to learn to live in a world where Squarespace and Wordpress are accessible enough that a startup or small business can hack something together that's good enough for a while without employing an artist.

The industry won't go away completely, but the fraction if it which can be replaced by cheap or free mass-produced/general-purpose products will be.


For sure. It's all the inevitable march toward democratization of tooling, skills, etc.

As with all probably-net-positive-progress, though, some losses are both necessary and worth lamenting.


I'm curious, do you feel this way about open source software as well? Does it cheapen the value of being a developer? If not, why do you think art is different and why is open source art a bad thing?


I would say open source creates new opportunities for developers. Instead of paying a developer to implement their own JS view library and then use it to solve a problem, you hire the developer to use React to solve 2 problems.

That said there is an aspect of AWS (etc.) making money off the back off the efforts of certain open source projects.

Stock illustrations on the other hand are a direct replacement for artist's work. If I find a logo online, I don't need to pay someone to design a logo.


I love and highly value open-source software. I try to donate to the creators of every piece of it I use, and make a rule of it if I intend to use it commercially. I admire open-source developers and hope for all of them to make a great living doing what they do, regardless of whether they themselves want that.

That said, yes, I think it's undeniable that offering one's work for free decreases its value in the market. Is that inherently bad? Certainly not, but it does make it harder to make a living doing it. Devs are doing okay right now because of how things are going—illustrators, not so much.

Projects like this rub me the wrong way for two reasons:

1. I've personally lost several contracts to people who charged very little or nothing for the (oftentimes very good) work they do for well-funded, plenty-capable-of-paying-fair-wages companies. I fully recognize this is just sour grapes, but hey, I'm eatin' 'em. Wouldn't you be frustrated to lose work to someone offering to do it for free for a client who intended to get rich using it?

2. Illustrations like these are, these days, intrinsically commercial and aimed at customer acquisition for businesses. These are for marketing; for raking in money. They aren't being presented as (though I concede they could be used as) jumping off points for artistic exploration or further creative development. I recognize others may not agree with me here, but that makes them somewhat antithetical to the open-source … cause? attitude? whatever.

A possible third, but more loosey-goosey point is that because the effectiveness and quality of illustration is much more subjective and difficult to measure than software:

Reasonably efficient functionality seems to be a satisfactory baseline for most people evaluating software, so that gives them a way to make a rudimentary cost analysis on it. A free, open-source search tool is great if what you need is a search tool, but if you need a membership management system, you can't just throw the free search tool on your site and call it good.

With illustration, however, 'screen that vaguely resembles a dashboard', or 'people in a meeting', or 'someone walking through a park' can all theoretically be used to visually communicate countless different service offerings or brand principles (which is precisely what makes these libraries so popular and effective), especially if you don't have a tuned or critical eye, or simply don't have much incentive to care about being more precise. It's therefor much more possible and more likely that a company can go years making tons of money without ever paying a penny for illustrations, despite those illustrations potentially being of great value to them. Which, yeah, bravo for them, I guess? But that sucks for illustrators.


I appreciate your polite and thoughtful response :) That being said, I don't really feel convinced that there is a difference. I think that just as open source software doesn't solve every need, the same goes with art and there will always be value for the people who can create original work and there will always be people who don't value that. Honestly, it sounds like a bullet dodged if you lost a contract to a client who thinks that way. They probably still wouldn't value you very highly and would likely be a bad client. That's my philosophy for freelance work. I feel like it's a common problem across industries. If what you do actually is more valuable than something available for free, it is no threat. Fundamentally someone will need your service if they can't actually get it for free. The people who think the free substitutes are better will probably learn that the hard way and there are others out there who will know better. And if what you do is not more valuable, then I think it's not a bad thing that you don't get paid, because you should make money for providing value. You gotta keep yourself marketable with valuable skills.


For sure—these are all valid points.

I think you might just be a bit more optimistic than I am, as I myself am not convinced that quality (by non-monetary measurements) will win (or even survive) in the end D:.


this comes up every single time someone shares their work for free. look, i have some sympathy for you, and yes it leads to devaluing some work by people who don't value your work, but people are going to keep doing it for exposure, you don't have the power to stop them, so accept that this is a thing and find the people who DO value your work. you have a powerful, awesome skill that I'd kill to have. I hope you realize how prized you are by the people that can't do what you do.


You're right—I don't have the power to stop them, and thank goodness for that! I've certainly considered whipping up my own illustration library and selling it in packages. It's just smart business, like selling typeface licenses instead of only offering custom treatments.

I accept that this is how things are, but I also think it's okay to be unhappy about it :].

And like anyone, I do appreciate the appreciation of others who appreciate my skillset and offering. But also like anyone, I can't help but wish more people did!


I regret that I can only upvote this once. Art is my job and I feel much the same way. I have managed to find a set of clients whose desires are better met by custom art with a distinct personal style but, y'know, it'd be nice if "shitting out some Corporate Memphis at a price point appropriate to a startup sitting on piles of VC money" was an option for me and a bunch of other illustrators too. We got bills to pay.


For real. I'm glad to hear you've managed to carve out a niche!


Or ya know, since all these sites want basically the same look you could start a community illustration library the sources contributions from the body of companies that want this kind of look to everyone involved's mutual benefit.

What value are you gaining by having 20 companies pay 20 designers to make the same generic uninspired designs because the clients want it to "look like $every_other_tech_company.?"


Haha, not a bad idea!

> What value are you gaining by having 20 companies pay 20 designers to make the same generic uninspired designs because the clients want it to "look like $every_other_tech_company.?"

You're employing people, which has some value to an ostensibly equitable society (lord knows most jobs are very similar and could be streamlined, consolidated, etc.), but yeah, I'm in agreement that it's a pretty crap situation beyond that.

Which is part of my problem with stuff like this—it encourages and embraces that homogenization. Set aside compensation, value, etc., and I'm just sick of seeing the same shit on every website and want to dissuade people from making more of what we already have in excess.


For me these type of illustrations are the equivalent of using a really bad stock photo to get your message across on your website.

While I appreciate people putting their work out there these illustrations are poorly done.


Yeah, it's one of those things where it's not a big deal if the audience sees it for what it is, because in that case, the company is getting out of it what they put into it.

What sucks is when people are so conditioned to expect a particular aesthetic or asset class (as with corporate memphis) that they just ignore it anyway, effectively justifying going the cheap route. "If our customers don't care about our illustrations anyway, why would we pay for custom ones?" If your illustrations don't matter, why are you using any in the first place?

> "really bad stock photo"

Ironically, really bad stock photos usually come with a licensing fee.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: