As long as you keep it inside (where it isn't defecating in my garden, hunting my chickens or trying to get inside where I may lock it in by accident causing mayhem, etc, I'd like my pregnant wife to still be able to do gardening and also I like eating things from my garden).
I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.
Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Cats are, essentially, a highly invasive species that has been linked to massive decline and sometimes extinctions of local fauna.
Countries that have had domestic and wild cats for millennia are mostly unaffected by domestic cats being outside, especially in urban areas where wildlife is overrun by vermin.
Yes, there are plenty of examples of cats causing issues, but only in locations where they were introduced and not where they are native. Australia is a good example, as domesticated cats have become a nuisance and bred in the wild. But then you look at what has happened since the cat population was culled, with the many videos of mice on farms. Removing them isn't a perfect solution, as they've been around long enough to become a part of the ecosystem and not just a destructive force.
I would also qualify this with; cats should be kept inside whilst in heat. Many of the issues caused by cats are due to owners letting their cats reproduce. Where cats have a good supply of food, naturally they will reproduce up to a balancing point with the available food. Many cat owners are unaware (or just don't care) about cats reproducing and the impact that has. Spaying/neutering is also a viable option if owners don't want to have to lock their cats in during their heat cycle - cats birthing can be traumatic for the mother, so this can be a major benefit. Similarly, male cats will mate with multiple females so neutering is many times more effective than spaying alone.
Spaying/neutering should be the default option, unless you have a specific wish to breed your cats, and then you should have a plan for it and do so responsibly.
Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds.
We also know that of the millions of baby birds hatched each year, most will die before they reach breeding age. This is also quite natural, and each pair needs only to rear two young that survive to breeding age to replace themselves and maintain the population.
It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway from other causes before the next breeding season, so cats are unlikely to have a major impact on populations. If their predation was additional to these other causes of mortality, this might have a serious impact on bird populations.
Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland.
>Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm.
Not in Europe, maybe new zealand. But in Europe we had/have wildcats until we destroyed the large forests. And nearly ever farmer depends on a cat to keep vermin's in check, if you have to keep your cat inside DONT BUY A CAT.
"Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usually caused by habitat change or loss, particularly on farmland."
Still autochtonous (more or less) species. Old world birds evolved with them for thousands years and somehow they will not have problems to survive.
We know to do more research about the cat effect on that fauna instead to just repeat one preliminary study.
We need to know for example, if there is a percentage of those migrant birds allegedly chased by cats in US that just crashed against a window or were stunded by pesticides. The problem in that case is not the cat, is the glass pane, or the absence of trees.
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Second point. Some scientists hypothesize that Toxoplasmosis remain in the body alive for years and is a chronic disease. We should however take in mind that this is not the main current of thinking.
We know that parasites don't survive usually when end in the wrong host because immune response works "like this" and "like that" and because the temperature, organ structure or life cycle of the true host, matter for the parasite survival.
I can't see why Toxoplasma should behave different that the other ten thousands of cases, or why the immune system should make an excepcion here.
Yeah I have friends that work in shelters and cat sanctuaries and given the unhealthy state of the cats that come in to them, it's pretty crystal clear that life outside is not at all that good for a cat.
When I walk about my 'hood I do see pet cats enjoying a time being outside, but it does not take much bad luck for their fortunes to turn rapidly, due to getting lost and deadly encounters with cars and coyotes.
Given how many of those get scars from fighting or disappear I'm not very convinced those are happier either. Dogs chained to a flat - sure, that'd be clearly not great for them but cats seem very comfortable being indoors only.
WOW you have a pretty twisted mind about cats...had 4 cat and non of them had scars..well one of them had scars but it was a Norwegian forestcat who got in fights with fox's...and dog's and my shoe laces....but hey i hope you never have kids.
BTW: Now i have a Dog and he can come a go as he wish...podengo mix...so half dog half cat.
There are widely known effects of growing up with a dog on immune system strength and proneness to allergies [0]. I have never seen these associated with gut fauna, but the implication is that some of the 'dog gross' gets onto you and trains your system.
How odd. I spent my childhood inna constant state of hayfever. A major revelation for me was going off to university, where I was no longer around the household dogs, and my allergies all but disapated.
Where I live most people with dogs either let them poop in nature or clean it up. They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business.
Telling someone to take a huge pet with huge responsibilities just to get rid of neighborhood cats pooping in their garden is a bit of a non-solution.
But I guess, it's all funny when you own and love cats. But, please try to imagine what it can be like for your neighbors who only experience the down sides of your pet. To me there is no difference between (huge) rats or cats coming into my garden, except the government allows me to kill the rats.
This, in my opinion, is why we can't have nice things. Calling for the death of any living thing that we disagree with isn't okay. And trapping an animal indoors where it can't exercise its natural tendencies is also a non-solution.
I completely understand the want and need to protect your property from intruders, animal or human. But calling for the death of any and all animals that enter your property is borderline psychopathic IMO.
There are humane ways to deter animals from entering your property. Something as simple as spraying a cat with water will deter it effectively - no need to murder it. Other options include putting down plastic spikes (that don't cause injury) on garden fences, growing certain plants which cats dislike the smell of, or even sprays that cats dislike.
And for future reference; if your neighbours cats are pooping in your garden beds, keep the surface of the soil moist. Cats (generally) won't dig in wet soil, and will instead find somewhere else to go. And your plants will appreciate the extra water.
I'm not killing any animals, I wouldn't even kill the rats, I was just indicating the arbitrary line between vermin and pets. We have frogs, hedgehogs and in parts of our town sometimes even a fox (and they kill chickens if you don't close the hen). I think it's beautiful. Not the same as the high concentration of cats we have in our urban area. One of our neighbors has 4 cats, and they all shit in the area directly around her yard. And they are the reason I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day.
And believe me, nothing deters cats, me and my cat-less neighbors have tried everything under the sun. I splashed them with water multiple times already. Sure, it's all fun when the cat sits in a box and is cuddly. But it's a roaming predator that spreads excrement and disease. And if you don't cuddle with it regularly, that's all it is.
And how can you tell me to keep my soil moist, do you know what an amount of work that is? Cat owners should come and keep my soil moist. Or, just keep their cat inside.
If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats.
> I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day.
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> If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats.
So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be?
Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a different city, or you could follow your own advice and go live in a more rural area.
I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?
You don't "have" to leave. Nor do the cat owners. My point is you can't arbitrarily and unilaterally decide that one type of pet is OK and another type of pet "doesn't belong in cities" and should be banished to a farm. There are far more cat owners than chicken owners in cities! And I am sure some people do not like the sounds or smells of having a neighbor with chickens.
It sounds like your real issue is that your neighbors are irresponsible jerks who don't put any effort into managing their pets' behavior. I can relate -- I sure wish my upstairs neighbors would hire a dog trainer, instead of loudly shouting "stop it!" at their dog who audibly barks over a hundred times a day. It's utterly ruining my quality of life. But I wouldn't proclaim that dogs "don't belong in cities" just because my upstairs neighbors happen to be jerks.
Before we got the chickens we told both neighbors and assured them that if they ever felt bothered by them they should say so and we would look for a solution. Certainly if one would turn out to be a rooster we would take action. So far they never make sounds and they just roam around our (100 m2) garden, on the grass all day. Neighbors with cats act annoyed when you talk to them about their cats roaming the gardens. Because cats are normal.
I feel for you regarding the dog situation. honestly if you would ask me, an apartment complex is no place for a big dog. We held off on taking a dog because there is no place for it to run in the immediate area. But indeed it probably wouldn't be a problem if your neighbors acted responsibly, and that is where indeed all problems originate.
> They certainly don't come into my garden to do their business.
It's only a small fraction of dog owners but in my city - and a lot more after COVID isolation which seems to have increased pet dog population noticeably around here - dog poop is regularly found on city side walks. I can find articles with complaints about dog poop on (for me, German) sidewalks easily, much harder than finding complaints about cat poop (Google search, German words: endless list for dogs, a single page with only two real matches). Of course, a big part of it, apart from cats trying to hide theirs, is that dogs are forced to be on sidewalks by having to be on a leash so it's not a completely fair comparison for dogs.
The cats (mostly in the more affluent suburbs that I live close to so I walk through there a lot in the evenings because there's a lot of green) don't leave any traces that I ever saw (I see one to a few cats every evening though, they are not all kept inside).
As a cat lover (without a cat since my living conditions don't make for a good cat space), I hope some day we get genetically modified cats that have no interest in birds. We have plenty of rats and mice around here though, in the shrubbery. Easy to hear and - if you care to look - see them run underneath the fallen leaves at dusk. Definitely would be great to have more car- and bird-repsecting cats around here, in the greener parts of the city!
>>I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.
As someone who lived most of my life in the countryside and our cats only lived outside, I will echo some of the other comments - is there anywhere where you can't keep a cat outside???? That's madness.
Not every place is the same situation, but I can definitely think of a lot of reasons why a particular area wouldn't be appropriate to let cats roam about.
In my experience yes, but only if you don't feed them. Then they go and hunt birds and other animals. If you give them plenty of food then they just chill all day.
Humans are outdoor animals. Yes. Well done. A+. We even have opposable thumbs, which means we can operate door handles and make our own way outside. Or are you asking us to demolish our houses and live out in the farmland now?
We build homes for warmth and security. Even our nomadic ancestors built movable homes (tents, teepees, caravans, mobile homes, RVs etc.). Just because an animal is supposed to be outside, doesn't mean it has no benefit from access to an indoor area. The rules for survival fit animals just as much; 3 minutes without air, 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. The numbers will be different, but if an animal cannot find shelter on a cold night, it's unlikely to survive (unless specifically adapted for that situation).
I live in a downtown area where there are many cats walking around. They used to poop all over my garden, but I think I may have found a solution but I am not sure.
I read that cats dislike the smell of coffee. So to experiment, I would cover the pile of cat poop with a large pile of coffee grounds. In my experience so far the cats do not return to poop in that spot like they would before.
It is also not illegal to add plants that are poisonous to cats on the border of your property.
I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.