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But doesn't this then introduce the problems with fines? They can be disproportionate and can also be viewed as a tax. Making them proportionate has other issues, such as effectively making it a non-punishment for some people who can optimize around it (people working under the table) and can easily lead to situations where corporations can structure themselves so they don't have to pay any significant fine with caught.


I agree that fines are not ideal, and I think these are interesting discussions we need to be having to think of better solutions, but I also want to be clear that fines are several orders of magnitude better than jailing people (and I think it goes without saying, even more orders of magnitude better than summary execution).

I do think there's potential for more mandated community service as a response to antisocial behavior. Structure it so people don't have to miss work.

A very large amount of the crimes we prosecute people for are either drug crimes or crimes because of poverty/economic inequality, and these are best addressed with public health and investment.

Even some of the remaining economic crimes - like selling untaxed cigarettes (what Eric Garner was killed for) if they still happen probably don't need public enforcement. Give those that pay the taxes standing to sue those who don't pay the taxes. If those who are paying it aren't bothered enough to pay for enforcement, I don't see why others should be.

Most of what we do in the name of policing is deal with problems that we'd be better off preventing or dealing with by someone other than a man with a gun. This is the low hanging fruit we should pursue immediately, and when we see what's left the opportunities and alternatives for further improvement should become clearer.


Fines that are not income/wealth dependent are discriminating against those with less money, whom are overrepresented, and should thus logically be forbidden in a functioning democracy. I guess little proper functioning democracies according to my standards.

Good point.




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