In Pure Data, the file format describes a directed graph of objects. It's not just freeform. Here's part of a presentation on "Dataflow Programming" talking through that graph:
Pure Data is Dataflow-ish programming language. It's fine for Dataflow nodes to be written in another language so long as the node is self contained — that's the essence of "Hybrid Dataflow".
Pd has some global state so it's not pure Dataflow, but from what I can tell that state is not what the rant earlier is complaining about in the context of Max/MSP.
Yes, that is technically true. A more objectively correct statement on my part would have been, "Max patches are JSON blobs."
But let's be real: it's highly dubious software, exploiting the tired and inefficient trope of the noodly "patch connections" approach made famous by modular synth folks. The sound engine sucks, even with the new updates made recently. The new versions are made using the JUCE framework, and yet it has no Linux support. WTF? Good luck doing anything low-latency, on any platform, using any kind of hardware. Seriously, last time I tried to agonize with Max/MSP, that shit would start crackling at 48k and a block size of 192, that's absurdly poor performance for any sort of "modern" audio software.
Max/MSP is something made to take advantage of "computer musicians" and "audio engineers" who know very little about the actual computing platforms they continue to exploit. These people have become decidedly easy to trick, they simply don't approach their own so-called "craft" with the amount of skepticism they must have in order to continue to practice that craft.
> exploiting the tired and inefficient trope of the noodly "patch connections"
That's the whole point. pd works the same way and so does vcvrack among more localised tools like Reaktor.
> The new versions are made using the JUCE framework, and yet it has no Linux support. WTF?
I don't have any love for JUCE but you are naive to think that its as easy as setting a new compile target and pressing go. Max is for profit and they need to target the most salient customers. Forget how little the percentage of people is that use Linux - you are aiming this product at a niche of niche people already. Be realistic here if you're own money was at stake.
> Good luck doing anything low-latency, on any platform, using any kind of hardware. Seriously, last time I tried to agonize with Max/MSP, that shit would start crackling at 48k and a block size of 192, that's absurdly poor performance for any sort of "modern" audio software.
I can't say I've had as much problems as you. I have a friend whose work has to be as low latency as possible (so that onset detectors are working really fast) and his system is running somewhere at 16/32 for vector size. The processing after this is non-trivial also.
I'd be curious to know what your professional use of Max is as you seem to have an incredibly aggressive attitude to the software, how its made and the people that use it.
> Max is for profit and they need to target the most salient customers.
The problem with this is that...
> professional use of Max
... surely, you jest.
This software is not stable enough, useful enough, nor performant enough to be used in professional settings, outside of perhaps some of the "multimedia performance" buffoonery of people like Carsten Nicolai.
One could not reasonably use Max/MSP for scientific or academic purposes, for anything where precision was required. There is are so many useless GUI/state management operations being performed by the sound engine that it makes it an unreliable tool.
Contrast this with Max's FOSS cousin pD, the highly performant SuperCollider, ChucK, or Csound even! It's a blow-out - Max/MSP is the worst-performing, has the least imaginative and least innovative approaches, and doesn't really do much at all in the way of refactoring for performance or for broad compatibility with other software/hardware. Its community is the least-knowledgeable and contributes the least - by far - to the broader computer music community.
I had this Max/MSP nonsense thrown at me all throughout my collegiate education. I was always able to easily convince people I didn't need that specific, useless, proprietary software, to do my work. But it was a constant uphill battle I had to fight. Because all Max/MSP did was entrench itself in areas of the audio technology world that did not know better.
It's terrible software, designed with a terrible software development ideology, and made popular for all the wrong reasons.
FWIW, Radiohead used Max/MSP live IIRC. Aphex Twin has used it. Neither are "multimedia performance buffoonery". Though I love your characterization because I've been subjected to plenty of said buffoonery.
For us plebes, the FOSS makes pd great. Backwards compatibility is nice, resurrecting 10 year old patches has never been a problem for me.
I suspect being successful musicians, cycling74 has an interest in getting their product into your rig. I bet Johnny Greenwood gets custom objects if he calls them up.
People interested in musical programming should investigate SuperCollider and completely bypass Max/MSP. It’s terrible software.