> If you need a manual on maintaining eye contact, you probably just want to have sex with somebody, if not with this woman, than with another one.

Or your path through life didn't teach you prevailing mating rituals. That "it comes natural" narrative is bullshit. Sure, will be the case most of the time. But, you know, human experiences are on a wide spectrum, with many of them fucked up in some way or another. And thus a lot of people can greatly benefit from finding help to improve themselves and thus their mental health. I'd generally consider this a good thing. Especially on such an important topics as finding a significant other.

It's great you apparently naturally learned communication protocols regarding flirting / body language / etc. And yes, PUA stuff can quickly become toxic and not be to the benefit of all involved. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. And you implying everyone who isn't a natural or wants to get better must be "simulating feelings" is just... disappointing.

"just... disappointing"

I'd bet that is not how you really feel.

"The creepy part is that this section in wiki teaches you to simulate feelings you don't actually have in order to get laid and this directly contradicts the earlier section about being genuine.

The bleak part is that if you need to simulate attraction to a woman you are missing something very good in your life."

Did you read the same part as I?

" the most important thing in any kind of relationship is honesty. In regards to seduction it is being honest with your intentions."

And the part about eye contact is not about simulating feelings, it is about what to focus for (those who are insecure), if you want to to get in deeper contact.

> you naturally want to look a woman in the eyes if you are genuinely attracted to her, it's hard to resist.

How are you certain this is universally true? Seems like a pretty clear case of the typical minds fallacy. For people that don't 'naturally' maintain eye contact with women they are attracted to, 'simulating' that behavior does not imply that any feelings are being simulated.

You need only google the phrase "eye contact hard" to discover that what you say is not universally true.

But I think you're tapping into something deeper, something I was going to respond to in my original comment, but thought better of it because you [edit: they] hadn't actually made the argument at that point. Now you've flirted much more closely with it, so I will say it:

There is a modern suspicion of the entire concept of teaching men how to raise their sexual value. There is a sense that it involves "faking it" somehow, or that it represents an unhealthy obsession, or means the man is only interested in sex. But it's this taboo which permits the distasteful 'PUA' community to flourish - it pushes the practice of self-conscious improvement to the fringes, where taboos are disregarded. It's a dangerous state of affairs when a man's best hope at improving their lot is toxic misogyny. Far better if there's easy access to good, practical advice that works, alongside a healthy worldview.

It's notable that the taboo is only for men - we don't assume a woman "probably just wants to have sex", just because she puts on lipstick (the purpose of which is to simulate attraction!)

(It would be interesting to further explore the sexual politics behind this taboo, and why the corresponding one for women is so much weaker, despite male noises about "preferring girls who don't wear makeup", and in particular how such taboos are powerful weapons in the 'battle of the sexes' that improve the ability to distinguish fitness levels in the opposite sex - but it's a fairly hot can of worms that I'd rather just allude to than attempt to untangle here.)

You are confusing me with another person.

Putting on makeup doesn't create an illusion of having emotions one doesn't really feel.

I'm sorry, I had noticed you weren't the same person, but must have somehow forgot it while composing my comment.

Anyway. The precise function of makeup varies, but the specific case of lipstick is, as I already alluded to, designed to subconsciously simulate attraction through the mimicking of flushed lips. That's pretty much exactly the "illusion of having emotions one doesn't really feel" - and far more directly sexual than merely holding eye contact.

"Faking emotions one doesn't really feel" is not why calibrating one's approach to eye-contact can be beneficial - in fact, these two things have basically nothing to do with one another! If anything, it's helpful to be able to conceal one's emotions before mutual attraction has been clearly established, lest an excessively overt emotional state be reinterpreted as aggression. (You know how people tell you not to make eye contact towards an aggressive dog, because the dog would see that as a challenge for dominance? Well, the relevant social instincts are still fairly active, even in humans. And yes, they can lead to unwanted screwups when you're meeting someone, e.g. for dating!)

I’ve lived by a similar philosophy for most of my life — to always be my genuine self. If a woman doesn’t find that attractive, then it wasn’t meant to be.

Unfortunately, this has resulted in me never having had a relationship, despite being well into my 30s now.

I have close female friends who enjoy my company, so I know I’m not completely repulsive to women. I don’t think I come across as creepy or desperate (I don’t even particularly care about sex). I just never learned the necessary skills for starting a relationship. I wouldn’t know what the early stages even looked like.

The likely future for me, if I don’t change something, is that I never find a partner. I’m not lonely or anything, I’m just worried that I’m missing out on an important part of the human experience. And I’m not sure how to remedy the situation without learning to fake what appears to come naturally to everyone else.

I have no idea what is really happening but as a wild guess, couldn't "I don’t even particularly care about sex" be the reason?

> Well, you naturally want to look a woman in the eyes if you are genuinely attracted to her, it's hard to resist.

I'm not sure if you're being serious here. Do you really think there don't exist any shy guys at all anywhere that find it hard to talk to attractive women or look them in the eyes? Seriously?

Other bits on that wiki page don't give an impression of a particularly shy guy.

Yeah, no. None of this is enough to decide whether he's any good at talking to women. Plenty of guys are social, but find it hard to talk to attractive girls.

Not too hard.

"And I like to approach girls I find attractive in real life (where appropriate) by saying hey and asking for their name."