FYI This guy isn't ugly, actually average looking 30yr old white guy, isn't short, is socially active. I honestly have no idea why this guy is still a virgin, im pretty sure he could find someone on a dating app if he got in shape.
>He isn't ugly, short, or awkward so shouldn't be a virgin
I've noticed this a lot: whenever a non-ugly person notes that they're perpetually single, the first thing people say is "What? But you're so handsome/tall". This strongly implies that one's physical attributes are the biggest predictor of sexual success. However when people complain that their lack of physical attractiveness is keeping them perpetually single, they'll be assuaged that looks have very little to do with it, and it's probably a personality/circumstantial problem.
Not saying that you'd be saying it, but it's something I noticed: maybe a societal-scale sort of euphemistic tactic to make people feel better. The importance of physical attractiveness, with respect to common reasoning, seems to shift to one extreme or the other depending on whether the person one is talking to is ugly or attractive.
Once an unattractive person realizes this rhetorical shift everyone performs, how could they ever believe anyone who tries to make them feel better about their looks?
> something I noticed: maybe a societal-scale sort of euphemistic tactic to make people feel better.
I’ve noticed this pattern since I was an adolescent. In my opinion, the behavior is aimed at making the reassuring party feel better about the situation.
Individuals who recognize their unattractiveness and its negative consequences are more likely to engage in antisocial behavior, which is threatening to others. Hence, reassurances aimed at preventing such people from breaking with the group are part of the social script. Taboos on suicide serve a similar function — they deter antisocial individuals from depriving the group of resources (mainly labor, in the case of those who are secretly held to be nonviable for reproductive purposes). The gross inferiority of the reassured party can never be admitted, no matter how obvious, because doing so could justify behavior that the reassuring party finds undesirable.
This dynamic is the single biggest reason for the emergence and persistence of online “incel” communities. These communities provide a safe space for alienated individuals to refute the social script without facing ostracism from one another.
I once read that the Outsider (as defined by Colin Wilson) lives their live in the pursuit of truth. I think that may partially explain why such a tactic is so ineffective for those people. They are concerned with what they think is the truth behind the words above what the words makes them feel, when the latter is supposed to be more important to the speaker of the words. The words are a tool to get someone to clean up their act, get off the couch and get employed again, and after they're said they've served their purpose they're forgotten about. The Outsider seeks that obvious admittance that never comes
I can understand the purpose of self-help statements like "if it frightens you then do it." The point is for the consumer of the help to do things they wouldn't. But I'm tempted to say "I'm frightened of punching people out of the blue, vividly imagine myself doing so out in public every day and have to constantly repress my urge to do so." The author says "thats not what I meant." Then I'd say "then say what you mean." But the point has been lost in a mishmash of semantics. And in the end I'm still frightened of punching people
Im in the habit of peeling back the ulterior motives behind such tactics. Its more concerned with what the people are trying to get me to do if they're making a subjective statement more than the content of the statement. I call that kind of act 'positive gaslighting'. The term gaslighting is almost a universally negative connotation but nobody really talks about the flip side, when you have to look to faith instead of working with truth to feel better. Honestly Id let myself be stoned to death than accept such words uncritically just because it makes me "feel better". I have to twist them into a narrative that makes sense with my worldview
(The irony is that blackpilled incel culture is just another tribe that you can't cross with the wrong words ("maybe I have a chance") or youll get decapitated, I want to remain outside of any tribe for the rest of my life if it kills me)
Your reasoning sounds a little over-binary; both things can be simultaneously true:
1: Attractive people will find dating and securing a relationship easier than unattractive people
2: Physically unattractive people can still be very successful in dating and securing relationships, because there are many other impactful factors besides physical looks
So you can say without lying or deception "it's surprising that [incredibly good looking person] is perpetually single, it should be easy to leverage their looks into a relationship" and also "don't give up just because you're ugly, there are far more important factors to finding a relationship than just your looks".
The surprise at someone being single seems to be exclusively about looks. I've never heard something about someone being single and being being shocked and saying "but he's so interesting/charming/charismatic", the surprise factor seems to be almost exclusively about physical appearance. If someone is ugly but very charming, and it is revealed he is perpetually single, it never really seems to be a surprise to most people.
This seems to support the commonly, tacitly understood notion that looks are the most important factor, everything else is of relatively ancillary importance. I'm not implying that other factors aren't commonly regarded as also important, but they're never given the primacy of deterministic impact that it seems that physical appearance is.
Attractive doesn’t mean you are somehow born attractive or unattractive. Sure, people win the lottery and get a bit of a head start, but most of it is charisma, how you dress, if you’re in shape, if you wear deodorant, etc. Attractiveness is a thing anyone can change by putting in effort.
There are two problems I see with just saying this
- "working on yourself" is left unclearly defined
- the assumption that you have to "work on yourself" before you can get in front of other people (apologies if that wasn't what you were insinuating but I've been given this advice by others)
Addressing the first the most obvious way that society deems "working on yourself" if I had to guess is going to therapy. Well I have troubles going to therapy because evidently some part of my brain related to forming any sort of human relationship (romantic friendly business or therapeutic) is stunted. For me the interest you speak of and work ethic for dealing with humans over objects just fades. They can be as enthusiastic as possible and I can completely forget they exist after a week if they aren't physically in front of my face by then. And there are plenty of states of apathy in between. So therapy doesn't work out that well. I go back to those people who recommended therapy for advice. They say "well go to therapy again, wrong therapist." At that point Im willing to believe theyre telling me that because they have no idea how to deal with me and want me out of their sights asap so a professional can take the brunt of my miasma. And that is a legitimate tactic when dealing with severely depressed people, see "codependence", it is just the truth. At that point I cant bear to be around them any more
Addressing the second, I think that would contribute to more alone time for someone seeking self help, whereas experience by doing is better for learning. Though, by now Ive learned the hard way that dragging my clearance-shelf mind into someone elses good time feels like it would be selfish to them and unfulfilling for me, but thats me personally
So my new idea of working on myself is just trying to stay employed as a single living thing and hoping I can retire without any more mental defects forming. Sometimes I feel empty. Maybe I got the wrong idea.
The things people have been talking about in this thread. Get in shape. Consider improvements to other aspects of your appearance like hair, skincare, and clothing. Work on your personality by developing hobbies that get you around the kind of people you want to meet, make conscious effort to improve social skills.
> the assumption that you have to "work on yourself" before you can get in front of other people (apologies if that wasn't what you were insinuating but I've been given this advice by others)
Sometimes getting in front of other people is all that is needed. But if your current practices aren’t seeing the results you expect after the passage of time, then it’s worth considering whether an adjustment is needed.
> Addressing the first the most obvious way that society deems "working on yourself" if I had to guess is going to therapy. Well I have troubles going to therapy because evidently some part of my brain related to forming any sort of human relationship (romantic friendly business or therapeutic) is stunted.
Not necessarily but in many cases therapists can point you in the right direction! Also, if you’ve had a go with therapy a few times with no results, it’s possible that garden variety therapy practices aren’t for you and you need more specialized expertise. You might want to check out any university medical centers in your area that offer psychotherapy. The intake can take longer and there’s more bureaucracy but the quality can be a lot higher.
> Addressing the second, I think that would contribute to more alone time for someone seeking self help, whereas experience by doing is better for learning. Though, by now Ive learned the hard way that dragging my clearance-shelf mind into someone elses good time feels like it would be selfish to them and unfulfilling for me, but thats me personally
IDK where you live, but living on the West Coast I know exactly what you mean, the “positive vibes only” culture can be incredibly draining. I would say two things.
1. Not everywhere is like this, and if you can move, you might find the social environment in another place more to your liking. Midwesterners and New Yorkers famously love to complain.
2. There’s also an element where you have to learn to suppress negativity around new people. As your friendship becomes deeper - it doesn’t have to be all that deep - you can drop the mask and reveal how you really think. You will likely find that more people think like you than you might imagine, they’re just more practiced at masking.
Anecdotal, but dating apps have to be the worst way to meet someone. Everybody I ever met through them has major problems and that's why they have to meet people through an app dedicated to meeting people for relationships. It's such an unnatural and strange concept.
Hard disagree. My last "n" relationships over more than a decade came from dating apps. It's also a high-percentage source of relationships these days.
Dating apps can be where people go shopping, but it can also just be a way to filter for people you wouldn't ordinarily encounter doing the things you do day to day. In that respect, they're great.
Anecdote v anecdote, matey. As with anything, if they work for you and others, that's great. I have a feeling that it may be a demographic thing related to geographic area, that and the times have of course changed and dating apps are far more mainstream than they were a decade ago.
An additional anecdote though as an in-between of both of ours: my mother in the UK met a man from Canada in a chatroom over twenty years ago, divorced my father, and they're still married. Not to say that it has always been smooth sailing at times for them (he's got paranoid schizophrenia, she's physically disabled now), but they're happy, so meeting people via software evidently does work for some people.
I mean, look at us, we don't know each other, but we're having a conversation, so if that idea is extrapolated to a dating app, sure, I can buy into the idea that they can be effective for some people.
one thing i think where dating apps help (or being introduced by someone as potential partners) is that you can discuss relationship goals very early. that helps weeding out unsuitable candidates quickly.
Maybe he has psychological issues. For example, people with schizoid personality disorder tend to be single because they have trouble connecting with people.
Thats what I was thinking, I really doubt it, he seems like a really nice guy and he speaks/ posts online in a "neurotypical" manner, however neurotypical people usually don't talk about their virginity on a blogpost lol
Still baffled that he is a virgin, especially at his age, maybe someone in a relationship can give him advice, he has a twitter
You're getting downvoted, but I'm not entirely sure why. It's not some toxic Andrew-Tate-esque take to consider low testosterone as a possibility for the lack of drive the author mentions.
Personally, I plan on doing it soon, there's no harm in it.
T levels aren't everything, though. Get a full hormone panel. I got one and found my adrenals weren't producing enough DHEA.
Also note that HRT, and specifically testosterone supplementation may not address core issues. I was a candidate for test, but this would have allowed my adrenals to stay suppressed and ruined my balls.
Could also be a consequence of just not having much desire to "mate". It's not unheard of for people to not want to "mate"; there's a reason why asexual is a term that people use to describe themselves.
FYI This guy isn't ugly, actually average looking 30yr old white guy, isn't short, is socially active. I honestly have no idea why this guy is still a virgin, im pretty sure he could find someone on a dating app if he got in shape.